Jauhen Afnahel: The Main Goal Is to Change Power at All Levels

A chance for Belarus.

Jauhen Afnahel, the coordinator of the European Belarus civil campaign, gave an interview to Euroradio.

- Jauhen, did you sign a petition for the resignation of Lidziya Yermoshyna?

- Petitions do not make a difference in our country. Nobody considers them. They have only formal answers. For dozens of years, our government has not been paying attention to petitions and other appeals of citizens. The only voice it hears is the voice of the street, a demonstration of strength. I believe that Yermoshyna should resign. She should be liable for the crimes she has committed as the election fraud. Other officials, including Lukashenka, should be punished as well. Yermoshyna's resignation should be achieved by all possible means, not only by petitions.

- Is it possible to draw any conclusions by signed/not signed basis: pro-governmental or not, sparring partner or real opponent?

- You know, one can say or write anything on Facebook. The best indicator is the deeds. I represent the team, which has long demonstrated its attitude to Lukashenka, Yermoshyna and events in our country. We keep doing it now. Once again, Yermoshyna must resign. She must be tried and be liable for the atrocities she has committed. And all possible means are good for it.

- Do you think one should take part in "elections" or not? Does participation mean legitimization of power or not?

- There are different ways to participate and not. It is possible to boycott the elections sitting on a sofa, and this power is indifferent to it. One may participate in the way some political forces are involved, and it is all the same.

Over the next two months, I hope we will resolve this issue and people will see how they can participate in the "elections," so that it could be damageable to the regime and contribute to the country's freedom. We aim to change the government at all levels, resign Lukashenka. We will pursue this goal in the coming months as well.

- Could you say which political forces are seemingly involved in the campaign?

- You know, I would not like to argue who is bad and who is not. Now there are more crucial and serious problems. For six months now, there have been some secret talks on the independence of the country, the economy is about to collapse. I have travelled a lot in the regions for the last two months, salaries there are of 200-300 rubles. These problems are much more significant than who is good and who is bad. Believe me, people are not interested in this. People are concerned about the solution of their problems, removal of the dictator from power, making the country normal after all. I guess it's more interesting for our viewers and listeners now.

- Everyone knows the strategy of the elections: to participate in pickets, to collect signatures. And what options do you offer?

- Remember the presidential elections of 2010, and the situation of September or of December, when the entire Minsk, the whole country knew about the elections. There was an alternative to Lukashenka.

The country believed in a possibility of change, in a change of power, although salaries were much higher than now, they were $400-500. Today they are much lower, and dissatisfaction with the power is much higher. I often talk to people and see the real situation. I guess you see it too.

I would like our adherents to be actively involved in the campaign. We will need help.

I would now like to address those who were with us in the square in 2001, 2006 and 2010. Today the fate of the country hangs in the balance. The threat to independent Belarus is greater than it used to be. The talks on the surrender of independence are under way. We regularly read statements about the single currency and further integration with Russia. Russian officials and Vladimir Putin are talking about it. Our authorities are silent. We know that Moscow puts pressure on Lukashenka to get what they think already belongs to them. And this is another reason why we are participating in this campaign.

One of the greatest values is the independence of the country. We should decide how we will protect it. Everyone - regardless of political convictions and party affiliation. All patriots of Belarus. And this issue will be solved next year, I think everyone understands that.

- You mentioned the Square-2010. Aren't you afraid that many people will say "you won't agree again, you won't unite and we will be beaten as a result"? Do you have anything to say?

- You know, the dictatorship is such a thing that it cannot be defeated without sacrificing something. One can't beat it just by sitting in front of a computer, writing a post on social networks. All the more one won't win doing anything. One must fight, this is the only way to win.

Events of 2010 are one of the strongest acts of resistance in Belarus under Lukashenka. It rarely happened, and that's why the authorities reacted like that. And one should realise that independence is at stake. One should fight for independence.

I would like to give an example of neighbouring Ukraine. Ukrainians fight for their independence, shed blood and sacrifice their own lives. None of the patriots says that they were framed, that they were left on the line. They go and fight for their country. Our situation is much better, we have no war and we can defend the country peacefully because if enemies of our country see that the Belarusians are ready to defend their independence, fight against the dictator, who is still controlled by Moscow, they will think twice whether to evade Belarus.

- Earlier, European Belarus was for boycott or non-participation in the elections. Why has the position changed so drastically?

- Our team was organized long ago. This team founded Zubr, European Belarus. This team challenged Lukashenka at the presidential elections of 2010. I think our story shows that we are reaching for the goal, the plan we have. One of the aims of this campaign is to show that the team has grown stronger. We want to talk to people, use the opportunities this campaign provides, discuss our plans and goals. We have talked about them many times. Our goal is not only the change of power at all levels and the resignation of Lukashenka. We also demand the closure of the nuclear power plant in Astravets. We demand to provide decent jobs for our compatriots in their homeland because now hundreds of thousands of Belarusians have to leave the country.

- Andrei Sannikov is the leader of the European Belarus, the candidate for elections in 2010. What is his position on the participation of his companions in this campaign?

- All the decisions taken by the European Belarus are discussed by the entire team. Why don't you want to ask Andrei Olegovich about his attitude to this decision?

- Andrei Sannikov did not say that he's against it, but if the team has made a decision, it is a green light, isn't it?

- Andrei Sannikov supported this decision.

- Will the program be the same for all your potential candidates or does everyone has his message?

- The program will be the same for most of the Belarusian people. I have already mentioned three main goals and one of them is the change of power.

My colleagues and I travelled a lot around the country, met with people. Both in Minsk and regional and district centers we see that dissatisfaction with the authorities has reached its climax. This has never happened before. First of all, it is caused by economic problems, which are the result of political problems. I mean low wages, pensions, lack of jobs and unemployment.

People have to leave for work in other countries. In eastern regions of Belarus, during the summer period with its demand in construction works, there are much fewer men on the streets. People go to work in Russia. To St. Petersburg, Smolensk, Moscow. Now people also go to Poland and even Ukraine. This is common for all border regions. People go abroad because it's impossible to earn money here. Salaries of Br200, Br300, Br400 are considered normal behind the Minsk Ring Motorway. Residents of Maladzechna and Barysau have to travel to work in Minsk.

The issues we raise - the closure of the NPP, decent work in the homeland, change of power - are common not only for all our candidates but also for the majority of Belarusians.

- Do you know how to ensure decent jobs, salaries, welfare?

- First, both in our team and in the country there are good economists and specialists in all spheres. Second, we can use the experience of other countries that faced similar problems and overcame the crisis - Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia. Third, I would like to quote the words voiced at one of the meetings in the regions. A young man, an individual entrepreneur, said a simple thing: the economy will start working as soon as these unskilled officials, uneducated specialists stay away from it.

- People in the regions think that Lukashenka is a good person, pays pensions, while bad officials do not listen to him.

- There are such people, but their number is much less than, for example, 5-6 years ago. Yes, officials are to blame, especially for local problems. They are to blame for poverty, while vertical officials buy foreign cars and build luxury houses. But I think it's time for people to realise that the dictator is the first to be responsible. When we talk about the change of power at all levels, we are talking about the change of those officials who can't cope with the problems and challenges that exist now because of their age and education.

- How many people do you have in your team?

- There are about 30 candidates in our team. They are not only members of the European Belarus, but also well-known public activists, video bloggers, journalists, people who founded Zubr movement, regional leaders.

Some of them have already announced their participation in the campaign, while others are going to. The full list will be announced when initiative groups will be registered.

- Who is your congenial soul? Are you going to join a coalition?

- European Belarus is the member of the Belarusian National Congress, which unites several organizations, regional coalitions and famous people. These are Uladzimir Niakliayeu, Mikalai Statkevich, Stanislau Shushkevich, Henadz Fiadynich and many others. The Belarusian National Congress was created a long time ago. It proved itself during the parasite protests and all major political events in our country. The BNC will take part in the "parliament campaign".

We are ready for a dialogue with other organizations and not only with organizations. Above all, we are ready to talk to people who share our goals and long for changes.

- One of the arguments of the so-called armchair critics is why do you activate now, but not work in the period when there are no "elections"?

- Are you sure that we are those to answer this question? We can be hardly reproached in idleness. Our people have been defending Kurapaty for the second year, they are present at all the street actions in Minsk, they organize them. Our people conduct an information campaign for the release of political prisoners. Every Sunday our people go to the central squares of Brest and Svetlahorsk, demanding the closure of harmful industries. Perhaps, this question should be addressed to armchair critics.

- Do you have enough financial resources to participate in this campaign?

- We are looking for finances within Belarus. Our friends and supporters provide us with assistance.

We are ready for a dialogue with other organizations and not only with organizations. The major thing is that we are ready to talk to people who share our goals and want changes.

- Is "parliamentary elections" a part of the "presidential campaign" for you?

- It is one of the parts of a free Belarus campaign. It is clear that this campaign will not end with the "parliamentary elections".

- If you are given a mandate, will you agree?

- Let's see how it goes. Now the major thing is to register initiative groups. Once again I appeal to all adherents of changes, to all those who want to fight for these changes. Join the European Belarus and let's solve together the problems we face.