Miechyslau Hryb: Tomorrow and the Day After Tomorrow, the Police Can Go to the Side of the People

The main reason for the crisis in Belarus is Lukashenka.

Law enforcement agencies in Belarus do not protect the law, but violate it, according to the Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Belarus of the 12th convocation, retired police Lieutenant General Miechyslau Hryb.

Miechyslau Hryb told in an interview with the newspaper "Belarusians and Market" about why the reason for protests in the country appeared already in 1994, how the Ministry of Internal Affairs should act during unauthorized protests, and why Lukashenka's promises to change the Constitution arouse suspicion.

— How do you assess the events in the country after the elections?

— I am actively monitoring the situation. Its cause is absolutely not new and stretches back to 1994, as soon as Aliaksandr Lukashenka was elected as the first President.

Now many of his colleagues who were with him at the beginning of the road, and now on the other side of the barricades, claim that Aliaksandr Lukashenka was almost a Democrat then.

However, this is not true. I knew him from the first day he was elected President. At that time, I was the Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Belarus of the 12th convocation, actually the second person in the state. But I did not become one, and Lukashenka did not accept me as such.

But it's not about me. On the second day of his presidency, he decided to create his own governing bodies, including the office of presidential Affairs. And he began by taking property from the Secretariat of the Supreme Council — garages, buses - without any warning or approval, and transferring the receipt of deputies' salaries to the President's office. He also acted similarly in relation to the judiciary. That is, he selected all branches of government for himself.

Further violations of the law went one after another. In 1994-1995, I initiated sixteen cases in the constitutional court on violations of the Constitution by President of Belarus Aliaksandr Lukashenka. The constitutional court considered some of these cases, but did not have time to consider some of them, because the court was dispersed. The Supreme Council of the 13th convocation also did not consider it, not wanting to quarrel with Lukashenka.

About a week after the election, the President asked the Supreme Council to allow him to pass decrees and orders that would have the force of law. We then opened the Constitution and showed an article in which it was written that the only Supreme legislative body in Belarus is the Supreme Council.

Then all sorts of violations started. Falsifications began in 1996 and continue to this day.

The government is engaged in fraud, hiding behind election commissions, which are completely subordinate to local administrations.

Now people are tired of seeing these falsifications, they want new elections, to which Lukashenka replies that there will be no other elections. Of course, he won't do it, because he knows there's nothing for him to catch. Such falsifications will not be possible under international supervision.

That's why people came out to protest.

— Perhaps, after the harsh suppression of protest actions, the population's trust in the security forces as a whole has been erased. How do you assess the behavior of employees of the Ministry of internal Affairs?

— As for law enforcement agencies, I would say that they are "so-called law enforcement agencies." After all, they must protect the right of any citizen, regardless of whether he is a violator or not. They, on the contrary, violate it.

Any citizen should be held responsible under Belarusian law for the actions that he or she committed or did not commit, but should have committed. He is not responsible for anything else, especially for the actions of other people.

References to the fact that the police or riot police use harsh measures because one of the demonstrators or provocateurs inflicted injuries on a Riot police officer or police officer are absurd. Detain the people who did this and deal with them according to the law, but you have no right to lay a finger on them if they do not resist.

If a person broke the law and went to an unauthorized rally, they can be detained, draw up a report, send it to the court, which will impose an administrative penalty.

Why does a person have to sit on the street if they have a passport and registration? Why should they beat him there? Why should he be bullied in a paddy wagon?

For me, all these events are terrible — some kind of middle ages. People are thrown into paddy wagons, stacked like firewood on top of each other, and they start walking on them, hitting them, and educating them. Should the police or AMAP be engaged in "education" and tell people who to vote for? It's none of their business.

There are criminal groups that live by their own laws. That's why they are criminal groups. And there is a state that makes up the people. It was he who hired law enforcement agencies and instructed them to conduct a civilized fight against violations. They received laws, equipment, and salaries from the people. If law enforcement officers in the state begin to resemble bandits, then the state will be called a bandit.

More than once, Lukashenka boasted that in the 90s they destroyed 32 criminal groups. How was it destroyed? Under what law did you do this? You should have identified them, arrested them, if there was armed resistance, maybe destroyed them. But don't just destroy it. This means shooting 32 groups without trial. You are not a court.

Therefore, I cannot call law enforcement agencies such in Belarus.

The danger is that this is not done by individual police officers, this affects the entire system. Abuse is by no means a secret to the heads of divisions or district administration, nor is it a secret to the Ministry. And Lukashenka is almost proud of this.

The judicial system is also affected. The courts work according to instructions from above. They received instructions — they just do it, without delving into the fate of this person, without taking into account the testimony of witnesses.

In 1997, I received the largest fine in Belarus at that time — about 20 thousand dollars — for participating in a rally dedicated to the third anniversary of the Constitution of Belarus. I have been speaking out against Lukashenko since 1994, and I keep talking about it. Therefore, the court was instructed to judge me to the fullest extent and convicted me. Then the lawyer's license was taken away for this.

— What should the reorganization of law enforcement agencies look like? And if you look at the situation from the other side, there are people among the police and AMAP who are not involved in offenses. Should they now be afraid to wear uniforms?

— That's the right reasoning, and as I said, everyone should only be held accountable for what they've done. This applies to both AMAP and police officers.

If he didn't break the law, no questions asked. If he didn't oppose the system, you can't blame him for that either. Everyone has the right to be afraid.

As for changes, the police should be people's, that is, to protect the people, not just the government or the President himself.

I met a retired General once. Once he applied for the post of interior Minister under Lukashenka, and even attended a conversation with the President, where the question was raised whether this General was ready to fulfill any instruction of the head of state. The answer was Yes, but with a caveat: only if the instruction complies with the Constitution and laws of the Republic of Belarus. And he wasn't appointed. There were others who were ready to carry out any orders.

I do not envy the police and AMAP in the event of a change of power. It will be very difficult to figure out who is to blame and who is not. There may be mistakes, especially since people now have a very negative attitude towards them.

Yes, they warn people to leave, but people don't leave. Why use such force when a person is detained and cannot resist? To show their power? Enjoy it? It's sadism, there's no other word for it.

- In an interview with tut.by, former AMAP officer says their unit could not have done such terrible things. Do you think this is an excuse or could there be other forces involved?

— In my opinion, this is an excuse, because there is no evidence that there were, for example, Russian or Kazak OMON forces here. But such statements should also be treated with understanding. Maybe his platoon wasn't doing it, and what the others were doing, he couldn't know.

— People chant "police is with the people!" and you say that the police should be people's. Does it have the potential to actually become one?

— There is always a possibility. The police tomorrow and the day after tomorrow can go over to the side of the people and declare that it is guided by the law and only the law, and will not perform any illegal actions. That's all.

Let's assume they will announce the dissolution. You can dissolve it, but who can replace it? We don't have reserve police. But it is not necessary to say that the police will do this now. Of course, much depends on the management.