“We Will Make Lukashenka Choke on These Migrants”

A representative of the Polish government spoke about the situation at the border.

How the flow of migrants across the eastern border of Poland is controlled by the Belarusian authorities and how Warsaw wants to resolve the migrant crisis: Stanislav Zharin, the press secretary of the coordinator of the Polish special services, told Radio SvabodaRadio Svaboda in an interview.

"Belarusian security forces bring migrants to the border, and often even participate in the destruction of border fortifications"

- This morning you said that a spy who worked for the KGB of Belarus was detained in Poland. This is a former special forces and border guard, who is now retired. Is this connected with the migration crisis on the Polish-Belarusian border?

- This is a secret investigation, so I cannot give you the details. The detention of the Belarusian spy took place a few days ago, this is the success of the Polish counterintelligence service that testifies to the good work of the Polish officers of the Internal Security Agency, as well as the activity of the Belarusian side, which is directed against Polish interests. I cannot say more.

- Poland has repeatedly accused Belarus and Russia that it was they who created the crisis on the border. What proof do you have that this is a provocation from Minsk and Moscow?

- This is evidenced by the correlation of facts. The first is the statements of Aliaksandr Lukashenka, who this year several times, both in March and April, announced the start of the migration movement. He hinted that this would be a form of revenge by the European Union for sanctions, for supporting the opposition. In July, there was an explosion of illegal attempts to cross the Polish-Belarusian border. In September, there were 7,500 such attempts. In October, there will be much more, I can tell this already from the first weeks of the month. And traces of the Belarusian state are visible in this whole migration story.

It is the Belarusian travel agencies that send invitations to potential migrants. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Belarus gives them visas.

They spend the night in state-controlled Belarusian hotels. And Belarusian border guards are involved in transporting these people from Minsk or other large cities to the Polish border. And it is the Belarusian security forces who bring migrants to the border and often even participate in the destruction of border fortifications that Poland recently installed.

From our point of view, the participation of the Belarusian state in this process is beyond doubt. Along the way, we can talk about the permission and assistance of the Russian side. This is evidenced by the fact that this migration movement especially increased during the Zapad-2021 exercises. It was then that Russia's dominance over the Belarusian side increased greatly, as Russian soldiers controlled the territory where the exercises took place. And this is a prerequisite to the fact that Lukashenka would not have gone to such a migration crisis without the permission of Russia. And the migrants themselves also say that they come to the border with Poland from Russia.

“Migrants entering Belarus become victims of deception”

- How could this have happened? How did the authorities of Belarus and Russia manage to invite thousands of different people from another region of the world?

- It seems that, at first, they set a task for the Belarusian travel agencies to establish contacts with some countries, on the territory of which many potential migrants would like to get into the European Union. There was a big advertising campaign going on there. There were ads on social networks or other media popular in Iraq, Syria, and the Middle East. Air flights were organized from Iraq, from Istanbul. Concrete transport chains were formed, which made it possible to transport a large mass of people to Belarus. But we know that migrants entering Belarus become victims of deception. They are promised that they will easily pass from Belarus to Germany or other rich countries of Europe.

This cannot be organized without the participation of the Belarusian state apparatus. Political contacts were needed here. And now Belarus is already actually patronizing these flows.

- Can you confirm the existence of a transition camp on the Belarusian side, where refugees end up before starting to cross the border with Poland?

- I can confirm that there really is such a way of the Belarusian side when it tries to collect new migrants in specific places, in large groups. Then they are divided into small groups. They are instructed on where it is easier to cross the border. The Polish border services have already published videos many times, which show that the role of such temporary camps is played by buildings that are usually used by Belarusian border guards.

- What do the migrants themselves say to you?

- They often say that the Belarusian side deceived them. They are surprised to find themselves in Poland. Some of them were sure that they would easily cross the Belarusian-European border, as they call it, and end up in Germany. And when they see how the Polish border is being guarded, they feel like they are sheep. They do not want to board the border, some say that they are even ready to return to their home. But sometimes the Belarusian side forces them to go further to the West. That is, they fully confirm the participation of the Belarusian side in the migration crisis.

"It is the Lukashenka regime that is responsible for the fate of these people"

- What is happening now near Usnarz Górny, on the Polish-Belarusian border? The refugees arrived there two months ago and live right in the forest. Lukashenka said in an interview with CNN that they were offered to return to Belarus to survive the winter. But they allegedly refused and said that Poland was promising them asylum.

- This camp still exists. These people continue to roam on the territory of Belarus, I want to emphasize this precisely. The migrants there are not in Poland, the responsibility for them lies with the Belarusian authorities. All migrants entering Belarus are there legally, so the Lukashenka regime is responsible for the fate of these people.

We know that this group is predominantly made up of Afghans who left Afghanistan many months and even years ago. At first, they were in Russia, and from there they arrived at the Belarusian-Polish border. In our opinion, these people should not be perceived as refugees, as international law says.

- Are they still the same people? Or are they bringing new ones there?

- I can't say how the situation looks today. Polish border guards watched as one group was replaced by the Belarusian security forces with another. Belarusians take care of this group, bring them food, funds necessary for life in the forest, help them charge their phones, bring cigarettes and other products.

"We return people who do not need urgent medical care to Belarus"

- Belarusian television and pro-government media publish a video from the border, in which, allegedly, Polish border guards or soldiers expel migrants by force, set dogs on them, and shoot migrants in the air. What is your answer to this?

- Polish border guards adhere to our border protection rules. Polish border guards and the army do not use any aggressive means against migrants. But indeed, we are determined, so people who do not need emergency medical care, who do not have health problems, we return them from our border to Belarus so that they can continue to be there legally.

I want to remind you that Poland is not the country they want to go to. The overwhelming majority of them are not interested in staying in Poland and do not even want to apply for asylum here. They understand that, after such a statement, they are obliged to stay in Poland for the duration of the entire procedure, several months. And they don't need it, they want to go further to the West.

- But you still let some of them to your place. What is the basis for this division?

- Poland has detained a large group of migrants, among whom 45% are interested in submitting applications with us. Then we accept them, and they go to a special center for foreigners, where they await the final decision. But such examples are in the minority. When they hear that they should then stay with us, they decide to illegally cross the border again in order to get further to the West.

- The German police reported that 4,300 refugees have already entered Germany through Poland from Belarus. That is, many manage to pass the border bypassing the Polish border guards?

- It's hard for me to name any numbers. We rate the density and efficiency of the Polish border as high, 90% with something. The Polish migration route also leads through the route from Lithuania. That is, migrants who cross the border with Lithuania or Latvia can also get from Poland to Germany.

- Who are the people who help migrants from Poland to get to Germany? These are citizens of different countries. Yesterday, during the flight of the smugglers in Bialystok, one person was even killed. Who runs them?

- This is most likely about organized transportation. Those who make their way across the border are instructed on where to look for such carriers. But they are being detained by the police and the border guard. Increasingly, we meet with the fact that the contact of migrants with carriers occurs as far as possible from the border. But according to the information I have, criminal groups engaged in completely different activities are beginning to take an interest in this route of migration from Poland to Germany. But they are still greatly hampered by the state of emergency on the border territory. After all, such people are much easier to find, since there is a restriction on staying at the border.

"A firm position on border protection will have an effect"

- Is the Polish side considering the possibility of negotiations with the Belarusian side? Lukashenka has publicly stated that he is ready to sit down at the negotiating table.

- It seems to me that the conditions set by Lukashenka are known. From our point of view, he is trying to destabilize the European Union in order to force it to abandon sanctions against the regime. Lukashenka also wants to force it to recognize himself as the legitimate ruler of Belarus. I think that serious political negotiations are impossible at the moment. Although we do not exclude contacts with Belarus at some working level.

- When will the wall announced by Warsaw appear on the Polish-Belarusian border and what will it look like?

- Right now, there is a legal discussion on this investment in the Sejm. As for specifics, we will report within the next few days. For now, we are analyzing various mechanisms, looking for the most modern solutions. But this guard will protect our border much better, it will be equipped with the most modern sensors, electronics, which will allow us to better monitor the traffic on the border.

- Yesterday the Polish media quoted your words that Poland will stop the flow of migrants from Belarus very soon. How do you want to achieve this?

- Perhaps my words were misinterpreted. We, the Polish government, expect that our firm position on border protection will have an effect in the form of pressure on the regime in Belarus.

We want to create such a situation so that Belarus itself begins to choke on the migrants it sends to us. We hope that this will force Lukashenka to abandon his decision. But I don't think it will happen quickly. I believe that the problems associated with migration will remain for the coming months.