Veranika Mishchanka Knows Who Will Become the New President of Belarus

The situation in the country can change in a month.

Why changes are inevitable in Belarus, how important the General Strike is, and who will soon become the country's new president - Veranika Mishchanka, a colleague of the Belarusian opposition leader Mikalai Statkevich, a member of the Presidium of the Narodnaya Hramada party, tells about this and many other things in an interview with the Charter97.org Studio X97 program. Host - Yauhen Klimakin.

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- Friends, the heroine of our today's program is Veranika Mishchanka, a member of the Presidium of the Narodnaya Hramada party, one of Mikalai Statkevich's closest associates, and a professional marketer. As a marketer, I would like to ask you. Many have seen this eight-hour event called the press conference of the so-called President of Belarus. How do you rate the content? Good bad?

- Eight monotonous, soothing hours. We saw that people slept well to it, someone rummaged in their phones, but there were bursts sometimes, of course. I was lucky, I watched this content in a very short cut on Dozhd, the most interesting moments. For example, it reminded me of how my little granddaughter persuades herself: "Polia, no bo-bo!" - "Polia, do not be afraid!" For eight hours he tried to persuade his "Yabatski" circle: “Do not be afraid, do not be afraid,” including himself. The more he convinced, the more it looked like, especially when there were these outbursts, that it was very unconvincing either for him or for his entourage.

- How do you feel about talking about his state of health, about the fact that, even during this conference, he was under something?

- It is very likely that he really was under something. Because people know: there are pills for concentration, which, by the way, are often used by IT specialists, traders, it is under these pills that people can talk for a very long time and do not stop. And then, just when he came out and was already stumbling, it was just as if the battery ran out in eight hours and the Energizer Bunny went sideways. Therefore, it is quite possible that it was so.

- Let's talk now about Belarus. Future for Belarusians? How do you assess the situation: soon the "bunny" will run out of battery at all, in your words?

- The fact is that I don't know how much his battery will run out. We know that mentally ill people are physically very hardy. And if you can only count on the fact that something will happen to him and wait, hope for it - then, probably, it will not be very soon. We need to do something and prepare for the fact that Belarus will be without Lukashenka. In principle, historically, any cycle, 30 years, has passed, it does not last any longer, a new generation is growing up, and there is a turnover. Therefore, I think that we should strain ourselves for about half a year or a year. If there are strikes, it may end in a month.

- The main problem of Belarusians today?

- Lukashenka. The main problem of Belarusians now is Lukashenka. This is probably the only problem. Because I will not say that indecision and something that is usually attributed to Belarusians because it is not true.

- How to raise the spirits of people? It's no secret that many people are depressed.

- You know, people do not have enough positive emotions. And, probably, we need to talk and write more about the good and about what we can build than endlessly grind all these troubles, our hardships. Because we live in this, every day we start to watch: arrests, arrests, arrests, detentions, detentions, detentions. And, probably, as Professor Preobrazhensky said: "Do not read Soviet newspapers at breakfast." The same thing, I noticed it myself, if you start the morning with an endless listing of arrests... We must fight for political prisoners, but we must not make it our main topic.

We must think about how to organize the same strike, how to prepare for it, and how to change the situation in Belarus than to endlessly stew in this juice of our adversity. For the same political prisoners, I think it will be good if we write them a letter with support and tell them that something good awaits us...

-… And that we are doing something.

- ... And that we are doing something rather than that we will endlessly revel in our misfortune and how hard it is for us.

- In a sense, we also have the keys to their freedom?

- Yes, yes. By the way, in my opinion, Tsikhanouski said that "the key to our cell is in the hands of every Belarusian." The words struck me then.

- How to win? What should be done so that the regime finally remains far behind, disappears, and Belarus is free?

- As we say, I mean my work environment, IT: “Work, work, and work.” They say a more profane word, I will not say it here so that I do not have to beep. First, learn to take responsibility, not be afraid to take responsibility. Secondly, understand that you can come to something and achieve some result only when you work and do something. If you sit and wait, it can also be like the Chinese say: "If you wait a long time, sooner or later, the river will carry the body of your enemy." It will be, but it will be in 10 years. If we want to get a result even in a year, we need to do something for this.

- Specifics, what?

- The workers need to prepare for a strike. To prepare for a strike, I am not saying to go on strike now. Because nobody was ready to go on strike on August 10th.

- That was the problem.

- Yes, that was the whole problem. People came out spontaneously. Here is the moment people came out. We understand that there will be many more such moments. Three main things: be ready to take responsibility, do something, everyone can: if you are a worker, prepare for a strike; if you are the one who can support these strikers, support them. Protect yourself, your children, if a new wave of covid begins, when Lukashenka starts killing Belarusians again.

- Last year, the world was especially delighted with such a powerful message: women at the head of the protest, women for their husbands who were imprisoned.

- I really liked this message, but I remember where it came from.

- Where?

- Most probably even all Belarusians think that it was an impromptu, such a spontaneous decision of the three headquarters to unite and women for men. But in fact, this strategy is very old, it is the strategy of Dzmitry Bandarenka, the European Belarus coordinator, if you know him. Then, even before the woman for men campaign, it was planned that it would be Maryna Adamovich for Mikalai Statkevich, and Iryna Khalip, if Andrei Sannikau decides to be nominated. To the extent that they even thought that they would take the names of Sannikau and Statkevich in order to make such a cool campaign - a repeat of 2010. But this strategy was implemented with minor changes, because when Siarhei Tsikhanouski was imprisoned and they refused to register him, and it was under great pressure from Mikalai Statkevich...

- That is, Statkevich convinced Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya to...

- Yes. And not just convinced, but convinced. During the night, the initiative group of Mikalai Statkevich was transformed into the initiative group of Maryna Adamovich, and the initiative group of Siarhei Tsikhanouski into the initiative group of Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya. And in the morning, they submitted documents, this was the last day of submission, they submitted documents to the CEC. Naturally, Maryna Mikhailauna was not registered for obvious reasons. But Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya was suddenly registered. Because neither Lukashenka nor Yarmoshyna could think of what it would result in. Therefore, this was the first stage when it was registered. Well, the second stage was already unexpected, when Sviatlana was allowed to become a presidential candidate.

She did not want to go, she was very worried because it was a great responsibility and such a turn of fate. And at that moment, we, too, all the proxies who were going to receive certificates, at the request of Sviatlana wrote a letter to Siarhei Tsikhanouski; by the way, he was against Sviatlana going further. We wrote a letter that we convinced her, persuaded her. Because it really was such a difficult step, and, let's not dissemble, it was a dangerous step against the background of what happened before. Therefore, this was such a strategy, with a long background, which so unexpectedly came true.

- The story about women was invented by a man after all?

- Yes. A man came up with - once. But if the second man, Lukashenka, knew how clever and correct this strategy was, then, of course, Sviatlana, most likely, would not have been registered either.

- A question from another topic. Western sanctions, how do you assess them?

- Very well. The fact is that, last year, when Mikalai Statkevich was at large, he then said that sanctions are one of the very cool tools that can influence Lukashenka. They, in principle, influenced, as after 2010, when they began to release political prisoners, also in 2006, but Lukashenka had a strong Russia behind him at that time. Now Russia is far from the same as it was even five years ago in 2015, for six years already. And we see, as soon as the sanctions began, they, by and large, did not come into force yet, but Lukashenka is already mad. This is what he is afraid of. He understands that there is no money in Russia, that he becomes very toxic for Russia with the introduction of sanctions.

- You like to repeat, I even wrote it down for myself: loss, a zone of uncomfortableness, an opportunity to reach a new level, an opportunity to make a leap. Does it work politically? Because now we understand, in the context of last year's and today's events, what losses are, what turbulence is.

- I think it always works like the law of life. Because all countries, even in Greece, which went through default, we see what the standard of living is after a few years. We see what the standard of living is in Poland, Lithuania. Countries that tightened their belts during the global crisis abandoned some comfort zone to overcome this crisis, they did not start taking loans, they just cut their expenses wisely.

- In the Belarusian case, this current zone of uncomfortableness in the political plane can turn into new opportunities, a leap?

- Of course. First, the freedom that is given is not appreciated. It was presented to us in 1991, and we gave it to Lukashenka so easily. I think that we will achieve it now, that we will learn to fight. To what extent it has united civil society and how matured it has become, that people have realized that it is impossible to live outside of politics because then politics will be concerned with you. Of course, this will give a big leap forward to the development of Belarus. I think we will not buy into populism, we will understand that one person can't rule the country. Having lost everything, going through all these torments, when every family was touched by repression, in every family, someone has a friend, someone has an acquaintance, someone has a relative who was in jail or somehow was repressed; people, I think, will already go further, having gone through these tests.

- In August 2020, you recorded a video that was watched by dozens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, in which you urged people to come out to the square. Did you assess the risks at all?

- I was very scared to do it. Even, probably, fear does not fit here, it was horror. I perfectly understood what I was calling for. But I understood that there was no other way out. We had no doubts that there would be no elections again, but Lukashenka will stop at nothing this time. Therefore, the only way, in my opinion, was to go out into the streets, go out into the squares and defend their voices. I didn’t call to take stones, throw them, smash the district executive committees, set fire to something. I was talking about a peaceful mass protest. What, in principle, was then in August.

The only thing is that this protest took the form of marches, but then we were inexperienced, we thought that we would scare Lukashenka with a number. At the moment, in retrospect, I would, of course, like us to stay on the street then. But you know, even we could not imagine what happened on August 9-10-11, that Lukashenka is capable of such crimes.

- You spent a month in jail last year. Under what circumstances were you detained?

- I went out on July 7th. On June 7, they detained me, and, for the first time, they failed to arrest me. I tried to leave with my youngest daughter, but they surrounded us, they came up to me and said: "Veranika Yauhenieuna, you understand everything." I said: "no." They were in civilian clothes, wearing masks, such a gangster group as in the 90s.

- I heard that you were walking five kilometers a day in a cell.

- Every day, by all means. Firstly, it helped to keep warm, and secondly, it helped to keep the brain in order without light and fresh air. Thirdly, I thought of all my further actions in order to stay free in case I get out. Well, and fourthly, I kept fit. Because I work a lot at the computer and this is a problem. I am a person who is used to making lemonade from any lemon, and I decided that while I was in jail, I needed to lose 10 kilograms, which, by the way, I succeeded to do. I came out in great physical shape. In addition to walking, every morning I had an hour of exercise, pumped the press, as Mikalai Statkevich showed us; by the way, his dad, who is 90+, still works out. Plus, all sorts of beauty procedures, let's say: face massage, masks made of bread, porridge, and so on, everything that we had at hand.

- I correctly think that Statkevich, in a sense, prepared you for arrests and told you that the press should be pumped up.

- When Sergei Sparish and I came to him, on average once a week, he always swore at Sergei that he sits at the computer a lot and his belly began to grow. So he showed us how his father lived then so that we take an example from him. And Mikalai Statkevich himself went out for a walk in Loshytsa Park every day, in my opinion, not even 5 kilometers but 10 kilometers every day, both with a dog and with Maryna Mikhailauna; he always pumped the press, he always did exercises - the things that help him survive in solitary confinement. Standing on one leg at a time to keep his mind clear, to save his physical and moral health.

- You told me before the program that you are grateful to Sergey for your freedom. Which Siarhei and what is this story?

- Siarhei Sparysh. He is the general secretary of Narodnaya Hramada. I am the head of the information commission of Narodnaya Hramada. We worked together on all information resources. At some point, I noticed that the attitude towards me had changed.

- Whose?

- The attitude of the operative, who was watching me, watching the guards. That is, there is more attention, but something has changed, it is difficult to explain. And although I was transferred to a punishment cell, for some reason I thought that Mikalai Statkevich had been released. But in fact, it turned out that, on July 25, they broke into Siarhei Sparysh's house, they dragged him out, confiscated all the equipment, and took Siarhei immediately to Valadarka, immediately under the criminal article. I think I was released because they needed basic resources, my computer, my hard drives, archives, and everything else because only I had access to YouTube. I ran the main social networks: Statkevich's, of the party, my channel was not yet there. It was YouTube, Instagram, Telegram. Siarhei was the owner, but I was an administrator with all the rights. They needed to take it all. Therefore, I think that I was released for one or two days to conduct a search and then to be transferred to Valadarka in a criminal case. Therefore, of course, I owe my freedom to Siarhei.

- Did you have the opportunity to say thank you to him?

- Yes. I wrote him a letter from my first underground. I then wrote to everyone. There were still few political prisoners. I wrote to him, thanked him, told him that everything is fine and with the channel since it is very important for him that everything is fine, I am managing everything, all our resources are safe. And I know that he received this letter because this is the only letter I received an answer to from him. I don't know whether he received all the other letters or not. For the second time, I can now speak about it openly, because my daughter is safe in Vilnius, my eldest daughter went to the court of Siarhei precisely in order to convey, she was able to record the court session and immediately sent it to me. She said to Siarhei, she managed to convey and thank him that her mom is free, that both Valiantsin and Ira were able to leave for Vilnius, and mom is now working closely on the canals, and everything will be fine. For Siarhei it was great, great happiness. Because for us, our work has always been one of the most important, in the foreground.

- How is it actually - 10 months of being underground?

- It's very hard.

- You were constantly hiding, moving.

- I guess, yes. In one place, I felt safe for no more than a week. And that week was rare, on average, for no more than three or four days. I moved from place to place. I had two wigs. Thanks to the people who supported me very much. One wig is a black bob, femme fatale, and the other is a gray-haired grandmother. Even on August 11, when I left for Baranavichy, for 5 days, I didn’t know what happened with my children, I left completely in disguise of a grandmother with a headscarf, I even put on makeup to make age spots; though it was very hot, I didn’t take off the mask naturally, I had a bag in which there were dill, tomatoes, something like that. That is, in the form of such a granny. When I returned to Minsk, I was already in a black wig, glasses, I never took off my mask both in winter and in summer. I took off my mask only on marches so that they would not just see how I looked in glasses, in a cap, in a mask. Moreover, I could even go out in the form of a pregnant woman, change my gait constantly, quickly change into a tracksuit, a cap, I had another bag.

- The story is like from a movie.

- My father, by the way, was a scout. He went through the war and remained at large, they could never take him. He was born in 1926. They also walked around the cities, my aunt and my dad. Therefore, all these stories from childhood plus realities, I understood that this was the only way I could stay free. You are on edge all the time, you expect every day that someone will break into your door. Especially when information comes that they have arrested Basta, Andrei Voinich, Yauhen Afnahel, they have taken Mikalai Dziadko, with whom you just talked and had to get in touch.

- The circle is narrowing.

- They took Mikalai Autukhovich, whom you just met at Zhdanovichy. And so on and so forth. Every time it makes you jump. Several times it happened that it still pierced the bearing, and then you drop everything, change your phone number, and rush into the night. Why did I have to leave Minsk? Because at that time, I had no place to stay in Minsk, except for the apartment of my friends, where they immediately came. Therefore, there were constant moving, constant changing of clothes, constant change of phone numbers, SIM cards, appearance. Moreover, because of this fear, I could not help but work, my main task, why I am in Belarus is to manage all the resources, including YouTube. Even at first, these first months, even before October, I went on stream, until such arrests began, and then it was videos. And no matter how I changed the phones, but I still had the google manager account, to which the channels were connected, I realized that it was quite easy to identify me if they wanted to. I don’t know why this was not done, perhaps they didn’t have enough competence, as BYPOL is now writing about, perhaps, at that time, they had more interesting people.

- Why did you decide to flee four months ago, after 10 months of being underground?

- It was a forced measure, it was very difficult for me. And every time at the last moment, when there was already an edge, they arrested more and more people, the ring shrank, and I still decided to stay. But there were three reasons. The first is that they came for my youngest daughter. We understood that this was an arrest, no one would release her, she was like a hostage. The second is that I was betrayed, I have no place left to hide. That is, I realized that I was already being tracked. The third is that it is very important for me to work. What's the point of staying in Belarus if I can't do my job? And I could not do my job well, I could not do good information work and show the Belarusians what I wanted to say, what I had to say. If I sit down, all the resources of the party will simply disappear with me, I will lose them.

- I heard that you had such adventures that you had to get out even on boats.

- Yes, we left Belarus illegally, since criminal cases have been opened against all of us, except for my daughter, I hope; they have repeatedly visited our addresses, one of our comrades has been searched several times. Therefore, we left illegally, we first left across the border of Russia, where they drove us from Belarus, then they met us there and took us across the field, through the forest, then put us on rubber boats and ferried across the Dnieper. From the Russian side, we were already met in another car and then we went to St. Petersburg, from where we managed to pass the border and take off, although we were checked there for a very long time, they looked, everything went on for a very long time. But thank you very much to St. Petersburg where there are completely different people who believe that the Belarusians are right, that the Belarusians are fighting for freedom.

- The ideal president of Belarus. Who?

- Probably, a woman is still needed in the new formation. Perhaps now it is very often a woman by gender. It is important that this is a person for whom the interests of Belarus are much more important than his own. A person who will come to this post in order to lead Belarus behind the civilized world. Remember, Lukashenka said: “I will not lead Belarus after the civilized world?” But it is very important that whoever comes, no matter what person, but the fate of Belarus does not depend on one person so that this power is limited by the parliament. And now in Belarus, after what we have experienced, 97% of people support a parliamentary-presidential republic.

- You're going in a different direction. And I want to get back to the question of the president. Names, please. Who would you vote for? Can't you say even a few names?

- At the moment, I would vote for people who have not tainted themselves in anything. Of course, I would vote for Statkevich, that's understandable. I would vote for Siarhei Tsikhanouski. Perhaps even for Viktar Babaryka because he is a strong business executive and if his power as president is limited by parliament, and we are afraid of his pro-Russian position, then I think, as a strong business executive, he would be very appropriate in this post.

- Wait. You spoke about gender equality.

- About gender equality, here I just wanted to say that I do not see a woman for whom I would like to vote.

- Tsikhanouskaya is not there?

- Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya is our symbol of protest, this is how wives stand up for their husbands. Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, unfortunately, has no political experience, no, let's say, leadership qualities. Although, if she is a representative person, it is possible, but I am talking about myself. For Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya - no, I would not vote.

Although I failed to do this, I would have voted for her last year, as a symbol of protest, but as a leader and president who will lead Belarus out of the crisis - no, of course.

- Many Belarusians are now depressed by one thing: those who carried out and are carrying out repressions, who killed, who raped on Akrestsin Street and in other places - these are also Belarusians. How do you feel about this?

- I will answer you with the words of my youngest daughter. She said that last year. Unfortunately, we see a lot of domestic violence, we see a lot of people who are inadequate, including in everyday life, and if they beat their children and their wives, why can't they beat other people? Also, in Belarus, unfortunately, there is a very strong filter, and the difference between eastern and western Belarus is very visible. Between those who lived 70 years under Soviet rule and those who are 40. Therefore, these are the grandchildren of the NKVD officers who shot the Belarusians; we very often see that, in principle, the son is not responsible for his father, but very often the apple does not fall far from the tree... All streets in western Belarus were renamed Soviet, Pushkin, September 17, and so on, all historical names were destroyed so that there was no historical memory to grow, just as BT loves, mankurts. Therefore, it is not surprising that such people have grown up, that such people are prone to violence, they are prone to propaganda, they are poorly educated, poorly brought up, they have no genetic memory, they have "batska," but probably there are no fathers to whom one can answer...

-… and who would be ashamed to look in the eyes.

- Yes. Because if Mikalai Statkevich remembers his ancestry before the 16th century and knows that one of his ancestors built the Peter and Paul Cathedral, he is also responsible to his daughters, he also behaves himself. And people who behave in this way probably do not know their ancestors, they do not care about their children. Therefore, it does not surprise me just.

- You are from Zhlobin, right? And you lived there until 2019. What mood is there now?

- Zhlobin is a rather depressed city. There used to be about 60 enterprises in Zhlobin. And there were such huge flagships, from the Soviet Union, such as a meat factory, a dairy plant, the only one in the Soviet Union fur factory, and the BMZ. At the moment, all these enterprises are bankrupts, so what can be the mood, people are all indebted.

- Do people hate Lukashenka?

- Why love him? A question to a question. I once recorded the video “Say Thank You to Lukashenka.” And the answers amazed me.

- What kind of answers?

- When an old lady in Kamarouka comes up with tears in her eyes and says: “Of course, I am grateful to Lukashenka, I get a good pension, I have medicines, I live in old age.” And then I ask the question: “How do your children live? Do they live well too? Your grandchildren? Do they have an apartment?” And then I see that the old lady has tears in her eyes, and she is lost and does not know what to answer. And then she says: "Well, we have a dacha, I help them." And that's all. Do you understand?

Why love him? For the stolen years? For setting up 19 residences for himself? For the fact that he feeds his family, and now also his guardsmen who kill people? For having 18 credits hanging on you? I mean, the average Belarusian. Probably every third Belarusian buys food with a credit card, makes payments, puts money from his salary, and then buys food on credit again. Can you love for this? Maybe someone does not realize, or rather, they did not realize that they hate him until last year, but after what happened...

- Everyone understood and named the feeling.

- Yes. The hatred was tremendous, and the disgust was tremendous.

- Many people compare the current situation with the occupation. Do you have a similar feeling?

- This is true. Absolutely. If in small towns it is not so noticeable, although in regional cities it's already noticeable, then Minsk is completely flooded with buses with "tsikhary," paddy wagons. The patrols, which last year went first in three, then in four, and now in six. Endless "olives" are people in special forces uniforms. Of course, this is an occupation, there is no other name for it. By the way, I still have sneakers in Belarus in which I was in jail on Akrestsin Street; I bought them in 2019; these are white sneakers with a red stripe. fI I just go out and walk down the street in these sneakers, I don't know how many meters I will walk. 100 meters, maybe 200, I’m unlikely to go even 500 - I’ll immediately be on Akrestsin Street. How else to call it? Therefore, of course, this is an occupation.

- You say that it is necessary now to work not only for the overthrow of Lukashenka but also for the parliamentary campaign. Yes?

- Necessarily. And by the way, this is always people's favorite question.

- Why?

- It sounds: "If you deny or criticize - suggest!" And they always ask: "What do you suggest?" Therefore, we, Narodnaya Hramada, have a large charter that has been published, we have a party program that has been published. We are, after all, a Social Democratic Party. Naturally, we need to work for the parliamentary elections because we will get Belarus in ruins, we will get a collapsed Belarus. In principle, it already exists now, for those who are afraid of sanctions: Belarus has collapsed long ago. It will have to be rebuilt. And how quickly we start to rebuild it, what kind of people will come to power, whether they will work for Belarus or will they work for someone's personal interests, or for the interests of Russia - this is very, very important. Because most often revolutions, unfortunately, fail not during the terror that we have now, but revolutions fail when, after all the efforts, after all the struggle, unscrupulous, dishonest, or dishonest people come to power.

- What idea is now capable of raising the spirit of Belarusians?

- Let's just say that 80% of people are ordinary people who have simple joys. They probably have no idea, they just want to live, work, raise their children, not be afraid of this, create something.

- Mikalai Statkevich likes to repeat that “when there is hope, you will not recognize the Belarusians.”

- “When there is hope, you will not recognize the Belarusians.” Because he speaks Belarusian.

- Is there hope?

- There is hope, and we saw last year, when there was hope, how the Belarusians have changed. This whole "swamp" has risen. Take any video, any photos of the past year: these are smiling, blooming faces, this is a sea of beautiful, wonderful people who, in a crowd of hundreds of thousands, if by chance someone pushed someone, he immediately apologized, helped, supported, shared his bottle of water... It was just a unique situation. Last year we saw just people with hope. Maybe this is the national idea? This is the hope for the revival of Belarus, for the revival of the nation. Now, of course, it is hard for people to live under this occupation. But at the same time, no one loses hope. They still believe that if not today, then tomorrow, if not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow.

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