Pavlo Hryb: Everything Will Change Soon, Belarus Will Be Free

The Ukrainian abducted in Belarus has told that the Russian FSB feels at ease in Belarus.

On August 24, 2017 citizen of Ukraine Pavlo Hryb left for Homel to meet with Russian citizen Tatyana Yershova, whom he met in the vk.com social network. Pavlo crossed the Ukrainian-Belarusian border, and disappeared without traces. Only two weeks later, the General Consulate of Ukraine in Rostov-on-Don received a message from the FSB that the youngster had been held in the remand prison in Krasnodar. Later, it was reported that the 19-year-old Ukrainian was abducted by the unknown people and taken to the territory of the Russian Federation. he was accused of preparation to commit a terrorist act in a Sochi school. In court, Pavlo denied all allegations, but he was nevertheless sentenced to six years of imprisonment in a penal colony.

Tatyana Yershova confessed in an interview with Euroradio that she agreed to meet with Pavlo in Homel not by her own initiative, but fulfilling the task of the FSB. On September 7, Pavlo Hryb returned home, having spent two years in the Russian jail, in the framework of the Russian-Ukrainian prisoner swap.

“They conducted a whole special operation and developed a legend so that I agreed to come to Homel”

- Whose idea was it to meet in Belarus - yours or your Russian friend’s?

- It was definitely not my idea, but those FSB officers who used her account. Back in the early July 2017, I received an invitation to meet in Minsk, which I categorically refused. Closer to the Independence day of Ukraine (August 24), many things changed… I hope that all the things that were happening back then will become disclosed one day - it seems too early to talk about this now, as we don’t see the whole picture. All this made this meeting possible. Not in Minsk though, in Homel. On the Day of Independence of Ukraine, on August 24, 2017.

- Anyway, you agreed that both you and Tatyana would come to Homel to meet offline?

- No. The problem is, they carried out a whole special operation and elaborated a legend. It wasn’t like people usually think, make assumptions that we just planned to meet, see each other or something… No, there was a totally different reason, connected also with the delay of my foreign passport, which I said during the trial… However, the whole picture will become clear to us later. Because now we only know only my part of the story. And even this is not complete, as I have not finally returned home yet.

- I talked to Tatyana and she admitted that they threatened her and thus forced to participate in the provocation aimed against you. Heading for Homel, she knew that your meeting would most likely end badly for you. Did you meet at the end of the day?

- Yes, we did. As for her words, everything she told you and other media was part of the informational war against me. It was a propagandistic campaign, aimed to discredit me. To present me not as a patriot and nationalist, but as some scoundrel with no patriotic views, but with some unclear reasons to go to this meeting.

“It is unknown whether it was real Tatyana at that meeting in Homel”

- To put it simply, they created an image of a “womanizer” for you, ready for anything for a romantic meeting?

- This, too. They plant certain things, and you imagine everything else. This is like in the situation with Zelensky, whom I didn’t shake hands with. Like, think of the reason yourself. And everyone think whatever they like about me, and all these assumptions have nothing to do with the reality. But her, you should understand it… She didn’t speak in court. Who spoke there in her name - this remains unknown. Maybe it was her younger sister. It is also not clear whether it was really her at the meeting in Homel. I cannot give a 100% guarantee that it was really her. I hope that when it all ends, we will know all the details of this case. When we defeat our current enemy, we will know all those who participated in this. Maybe then we will know that everything she said, also to you, was not true.

- Does it turn out that even after all the trials you still don’t know the whole picture of what happened to you?

- It is clear that the entire operation was supervised from Moscow, by the central apparatus of the FSB. Yes, their Krasnodar branch carried out the investigation and stuff, but it was the people from Moscow who led the operation. I think the Krasnodar men does not know all the details of this case.

- Your father was against this journey, but you went there anyway…

- There were certain things there, guarantees… I knew it was risky, that everything was possible… But I had some grounds to claim that I could return. Unfortunately, I wasn’t careful. Not only because I went there in the first place, but also because I went their alone, without proper company - this was a minus. If I had properly prepared for that meeting, I would have been able to either avoid detention, or stay in Belarus somehow so that they would not take me abroad so easily.

- There must be serious reasons for you to go to Homel regardless of your understanding of the reality of the threats. Which argument has become decisive in taking the decision to go?

- There was no key argument, I will say this right away. There were certain reasons, circumstances. They left a hope that I could return, when weighed. I got this hope from the addressee who communicated with me on behalf of Tatyana. So there was no key argument, there were parts and fittings. It is too early to talk about them now though, as we don’t know the whole picture yet. One thing is certain - they prepared a serious operation against me.

You know, I had to wait outside for a long time, and the weather was nasty, I was cold. This played for the benefit of the assault group. In general, since I crossed the Belarusian border, there were many circumstances which I did not pay proper attention to at that moment.

“There was an instruction to let me cross the border, the bus was followed by the car with the KGB officers”

- Do you rule out that you were followed from the border?

- I noticed this back then. But I want to verify my assumptions. In order not to accuse anyone groundlessly. It should not be forgotten that, making such statements, I risk my relatives in Belarus. And the most important, I risk myself. They can get anyone here, with such corruption. And they do.

- If not only the assault group, but also the people who followed you from the border participated in the operation, then two versions appear logical: either there were more than one groups of Russian agents in Belarus, or they acted together with…

- The KGB. Yes, this is true. Because there was an instruction to let me cross the border, there was an instruction to follow me. They did. I don’t know whether someone took the bus on which I was going from Chernihiv to Homel, but there was a car following the bus, this is for sure. I don’t know how many of them there were, but they were the KGB officers, for sure.

I will not tell everything, but… It’s not that I am scared for myself, but you cannot go against everyone alone. I was alone, as then. I could not count on the help of the Ukrainian representatives, due to certain reasons.

- I still cannot understand the reasons under which you attracted the interest of the FSB, and were abducted…

- Already in the 9th grade I took the decision to do what I can for Ukraine… Usually we tell the media that I haven’t been abroad or in the eastern Ukraine… But if it was so, would they abduct an ordinary person? Also, they would not capture a person for something he posted on social networks, as they informed initially.

- So, what for? Was it the pro-Ukrainain position, or the decision taken in the 9th grade? Or did the FSB wanted to get your father this way, obtain certain information from him?

- Of course not. Both they and we know it. The time will come, and we will completely restore the whole picture. I will not even say anything about my father - it sounds pointless. They knew everything about him and, before starting this operation, everyone knew about him. That was not the reason. And I want to say right away: no matter how they tried, I did not give out any state secrets or official information that I knew.

- Did you have such information?

- Well, they didn’t capture me out of nothing! I repeat: they have a reason to act this way. I didn’t tell them anything serious though. This is what matters for me. As for me being a threat to them… Everyone can pose a certain threat. Depending on their views and activities. This refers not only to politicians.

“I lacked several seconds to take out a folding butterfly knife”

- I will return to the moment of capture in Homel. You said you expected something like that, but how much was the capture itself a surprise?

- The weather was bad, I was very cold, and the only place to keep warm was the bus station. When our meeting ended, I hurried there. That was the moment when I lost my guard, and they took advantage of it. I lacked several seconds to take out a folding butterfly knife. In order to at least somehow fight back, run away, make a noise. And then everything would be different. But they worked professionally: a few seconds, and I was already in the car. There were witnesses of all this, video cameras ... But since everything happened with the participation of the KGB …

- What happened in the car? Could you determine who your invaders were, by their accent?

- They didn't talk. They threw me into the front seat, pulled off my backpack, put a balaclava and a hood on my head, started beating ... Then, on the way, they clasped my hands with fishing line. Once stopped - most likely, at the exit from Homel. They had a smoke there and set off on a long journey to Yartsevo. All the time my hands were pulled together by a fishing line, it was hard, my hands were turning blue - the scar from the fishing line still remains.

- On the way, did you not try to speak with them, find out what was the matter?

- No. I knew that these were bandits and that all attempts would be meaningless.

“As a non-media person, I could not hope for attention to myself”

- When it became clear where you were and what awaited you, were there hopes for a speedy release, an exchange? That because of your disappearance, noise will rise in Belarus and the Belarusian security forces, the police will start looking for you, Ukrainian services will join…

- The Governor-General of Muscovy Belarus - under the dictatorship of Lukashenka. They collaborate (with the FSB - Edit.), and therefore they are the same bandits - both their KGB, and their authorities. There’s no hope on them. As for the noise ... I did not expect any noise. And therefore, due to threats to my life and other circumstances, in order to save my life, I was not able then to do everything possible to make this noise work. And at that time they started a campaign to discredit me. On the other hand, no one really knew me - I am a non-public person. Therefore, as a non-media person, I could not hope for attention. At least for the first time. And I had reasons to believe that due to certain circumstances it would be beneficial to forget about me in Ukraine. As practice has shown, certain people in Ukraine are forgotten if it is beneficial to someone. Not hoping to be rescued, I decided not to risk it.

- By risk, which you decided not to take, do you mean escape?

- No. It’s just that from the very beginning I would have behaved impudently, to say the least. Just as you need to behave with them. Go against their will. You see, there was a direct threat that they would kill me in that case. I was ready to die, but if I were one hundred percent sure that they would not forget about me here in Ukraine.

- If you had the opportunity to meet that girl, Tatyana, what would you tell her?

- I didn’t even think about it ... I could now say beautifully: “Why did you do this?” But today I can ask one question, and tomorrow, when we become aware of more things about everything that happened, there will be a completely different question. I don’t see the point of saying beautiful words for headlines …

- Has your health deteriorated during your stay in the pre-trial detention center?

- There are health problems, and lost time is a pity. But thank God that I returned not crippled. Not everyone is so lucky. Some damaged their health, and at the same time life.

- You have already said that you will no longer risk going to Belarus. And if you have personal security guarantees from Lukashenka?

- And who is Lukashenka, what guarantees can he give? Lukashenka will not decide anything without Putin, otherwise he will simply be destroyed. But I believe that everything will soon change and Belarus will be free.