Natallia Radzina: I Call on All Opposition Leaders to Demand Economic Sanctions against the Regime

This is the only way we can defend freedom.

Natallia Radzina, editor-in-chief of Charter97.org, commented on the authorities' attack on the tut.by website and freedom of speech in Belarus at the Belsat studio.

Charter97.org prepared a transcript of the conversation

Belsat presenter: We have editor-in-chief of Charter-97 Natallia Radzina in our studio. Hello Natallia.

Natallia Radzina: Good afternoon.

Belsat presenter: Natallia, today, on the one hand, we all seem to be surprised at what is happening, but on the other hand, there have already been murders of journalists: this is Dzmitry Zavadski, this is Pavel Sharamet, this is Aleh Biabenin. Also, Charter-97 has been working in an underground regime for many years. Are you surprised by what's happening today?

Natallia Radzina: No, it doesn't surprise me. Freedom of speech in Belarus is constantly being destroyed. And, in general, today it is practically destroyed.

Charter-97 has been actively pursued over the past 10 years. Our founder, Aleh Biabenin, was killed, the journalists of the site were arrested, many were thrown into prisons, and criminal cases were initiated en masse. Now we have to work from abroad. In 2018, Charter was blocked. I then warned all my colleagues, including the founder of tut.by Yury Zisser, that if there is no general solidarity, and there is no harsh reaction from European structures, then freedom of speech in Belarus will be completely destroyed. What we see today does not surprise me at all.

What do we expect from the fascist regime? What do we expect from the bandits who seized power? It is absolutely clear that today they are destroying all living things that remain. There can be no agreements with this regime, there can be no peace agreements on some kind of coexistence. There can be no position “both ours and yours.”

It is clear that today the regime requires the media to serve it, or they will be destroyed. It turns out that the position of tut.by, which has always occupied a position "above the fray," is no longer acceptable for this regime. Because, in this situation, you need to understand that we are dealing with a junta, which today will destroy everyone.

I want to remind you that, today, there are thousands of political prisoners in prisons, the power is illegitimate, the power is not recognized anywhere. Today, it is holding the situation exclusively by armed means. What do we want from this government?

Today I want to call on all opposition leaders, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya spoke here, if she wants to be the leader of the nation, she must today not only notify the European Commission and other European structures about the situation with tut.by, she must demand immediate economic sanctions against this regime.

Belsat presenter: Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya demands to introduce economic sanctions. The United States has already imposed these sanctions.

Natallia Radzina: Unfortunately, she does it inconsistently, that is, once she talks about economic sanctions, the next ten times she speaks exclusively about personal sanctions. I want to say that only economic sanctions affect this regime.

Belsat presenter: Isn't that why this regime is so angry that these sanctions are being introduced? And all these actions are anger in agony.

Natallia Radzina: You are confusing cause and effect. In fact, it is economic sanctions that will hit the regime if they are fully implemented. They are not there yet. Only the United States has threatened that it will impose them, but the sanctions have not yet entered into force.

If these sanctions are synchronized with the European Union, if they are introduced against more enterprises, including Belaruskali, then this will really hit the regime and stop the dictatorship. Trust me, the regime will collapse in a matter of weeks if this happens.

I know the workers of Belarusian enterprises, a lot of them, who tell me: "We want to have these sanctions. Because we still live in terrible conditions today, we are afraid to go out on the streets..."

Belsat presenter: On the other hand, these workers may also simply not go to work. And the regime will also collapse in two weeks.

Andrei Bastunets, chairman of the Belarusian Association of Journalists, joins our conversation. We welcome you.

Andrei Bastunets: Hello.

Belsat presenter: Today is the Belarusian Association of Journalists a structure that can somehow protect journalists or is it a structure that itself requires protection today?

Andrei Bastunets: I think that the question is not very good. We are a structure that should protect journalists, we do it. Unfortunately, how successful our actions can be depends not only on us, not only on the lawyers with whom we cooperate, not only on our contacts.

Today someone calls the situation a legal default; I liked the definition given by a colleague from our organization: “territory of free hunting," free hunting us. The target of this hunt is both journalists and the BAJ, but we are trying to do everything that we can do, we are trying to do it inside the country.

By the way, I respect Natallia very much and know her well, but I am sure that free speech has not been killed in the country, and freedom of speech is possible only when people work in the field, even people from the same Belsat work inside the country. It is very difficult, they really need to be supported.

Belsat presenter: I believe that both Belsat and Charter support their people who work in the field. We all know that we cannot work without these people.

Natallia Radzina: Naturally. Of course, I want to express solidarity with all Belarusian journalists who continue to work in Belarus today. I know this is a huge risk. Our journalists are also forced to work underground.

Today I want to tell the tut.by journalists that if they want to remain independent journalists, they need to learn to work underground, perhaps, an editorial office is needed abroad in order to work without pressure from the authorities. It is necessary to go to social networks. After all, we all have Telegram channels. There are many ways to bypass blocking. In the 21st century, this regime is not able to completely destroy freedom of speech, this is completely understandable. The main thing is to fulfill your mission: to tell people the truth about what is happening.

Belsat presenter: The Prosecutor General's Office announced the reason for blocking the tut.by website. Let's listen.

Statement by the Prosecutor General's Office on blocking the website tut.by.

Belsat presenter: Andrei, we are independent journalists, of course, we know the full responsibility. We are not some chosen caste, and they press us in the same way as all other political prisoners and other people in Belarus. The question is, what to do about it?

Andrei Bastunets: I would like to return to the words that the representative of the prosecutor's office said. If the prosecutor's office also monitored the activities of the police, its own activities, the legal education of representatives of the bodies that should be involved in monitoring the situation with the rule of law, then these words simply could not be heard here.

Belsat presenter: It is obvious that the prosecutor's office violates the law, the prosecutor's office does not do what it should do.

Andrei Bastunets: I also want to say one thing: the very fact that all this is happening out of court could become the basis for discussing the situation. If our courts did not work in the same way as our prosecutor's office or the Ministry of Information does. Sorry, now repeat your questions.

Belsat presenter: I understand your emotions, but what should everyone do about it?

Andrei Bastunets: Only what we do. We don't have many tools. Our most important tools are word and solidarity. That's all we can use. When I say “we,” I mean the entire civil society.

Belsat presenter: Of course, we journalists cannot pick up machine guns and also call on people to pick up machine guns. Although, we are often accused of this. Natallia, what other way out in this situation can there be? Are we as the independent media doing something wrong?

Natallia Radzina: We do everything right. I want to say that we have just tried to comment on the statement of the prosecutor, but in Belarus, in general, not only Lukashenka is an impostor who illegally seized power, but all these prosecutors are exactly the same impostors. They are all illegitimate.

This prosecutor will still answer before the court for all his statements. If they think they mumbled something, and we journalists have forgotten it... No! Everything is recorded. And then he will be held accountable before the law for the fact that he destroyed free speech in Belarus.

What to do? Journalists are Belarusians, they are representatives of the Belarusian people. We are exactly the same citizens of this country as everyone else. We all need to fight today this junta that has seized power. And there is no other way for any of us, not for any of the Belarusians, regardless of what profession or group a person belongs to, except fighting. Because, otherwise, we will not survive.

They have already crossed all limits and all boundaries. It's going to get worse. They are already killing with impunity, they must be stopped. Only mass protests, strikes, and harsh economic sanctions can stop them. This is what every Belarusian should understand today.

Belsat presenter: The Belarusians understand this, perhaps not all of them, but there is also fear in society, and total terror takes place around society.

Natallia Radzina: Now there is a war in Israel, I have a lot of friends living there. They do not have this state of fear, depression, loss of strength, unwillingness to do something. They just understand that they need to defend their lives, defend their country. Today, Belarusians should understand in the same way that they need to fight, because they can lie low, go into depression, do nothing, run away, and forget about the existence of their country, but this is not an option.

Today we, Belarusians who are abroad, Belarusians who are inside the country, must be together, help each other and understand that if we do not resist, we will all be destroyed. What happened to tut.by is an indicator. It is impossible to sit on two chairs. It is impossible to negotiate with the bandits. If not today, then tomorrow they will still deceive you and still destroy you.

Belsat presenter: It's like negotiating with terrorists. Andrei, is there enough solidarity in our journalistic community? How do you see it?

Andrei Bastunets: I will answer because I am very annoyed now to hear the words that tut.by tried to sit on two chairs and come to an agreement with the terrorists.

This is about the same as what the pro-government website of journalists now wrote about tut.by, they criticize us, but they wrote about them: they went to the Hi-Tech Park in order to take advantage of the benefits that they can get.

I know tut.by as one of the most professional resources. By and large, this is precisely why they are the most popular information resource in Belarus. I know journalists who have already gone through, sorry, many criminal and administrative cases, detentions, but remained in the country and did their job.

I know that this pressure contributed to the death of the seriously ill Yury Zisser, but no one knows how he would have held on if this pressure had not been applied to him.

Tut.by became a victim precisely because it tried to use those standards of journalism that are generally known and from which the Belarusian state has gone very far, if we look at BT. You have to have nerves of steel to watch certain news broadcasts.

Therefore, I would like to say once again that it is not an attempt to sit on two chairs but an attempt to make professional journalism, and the successes that tut.by has achieved in this direction became the reason that they are trying to destroy them so that this most serious information resource in Belarus will lose its audience.

Natallia Radzina: I want to answer Andrei that just all the media repressed by the regime - both the Belsat TV channel and Charter - did their job professionally and that is why they were subjected to repression even earlier.

I propose not to compare who is more professional but, first of all, to simply understand that today freedom is being destroyed in Belarus, and our task is to fight this. Once again, I want to express my solidarity with the tut.by journalists, but I want to say that this situation was predictable, that we will come to this. That gradually, as I said, first some, then others will be destroyed. The situation has been going on for more than one year, it has been going on for more than ten years but, in general, from the first day of Lukashenka's coming to power, when he seized television and radio stations, destroyed independent newspapers.

In 2010, there was an attempt to destroy the Charter, then repressions against Belsat began, and we, including the Belarusian Association of Journalists, must have rung the bells even harder and called on the European Union for serious sanctions. Then there were hopes among some Belarusian journalists: "We will sit out, we will wait, let them destroy these people, and we will be saved." No, guys, no one is going to be saved right now. We really need to unite all together. Not to discuss who is more professional and who is more revolutionary but simply to be together and eventually win in order to live in a normal country.

Belsat presenter: Our today's broadcast is and will be a confirmation that we, independent journalists, are all together. Charter-97, Belsat, Belarusian Association of Journalists, blogger Nexta, our other colleagues - we are all together.