Nikolai Svanidze: “Problem with Lukashenka must be resolved”

A well-known Russian journalist, a member of the Public Chamber of Russia Nikolai Svanidze, has given an exclusive interview to charter97.org website.

- Russian TV channels have finally started to say the truth about what is happening in Belarus. Films unmasking Lukashenka have been well known long ago. Why it your eyes are opened now?

- I think the explanation is simple: one way or another we were allies with Lukashenka. Russia came to the defense of Lukashenka from the West, and helped him out all the time. When the West was curling lips saying that he is a dictator, that there is no place for him in Europe, that he cracks down on journalists, and people in his country disappear, Russia answered: no, it’s just an impression, because he was our ally. And now Lukashenka is no longer our man, our ally.

- Meanwhile all Russian TV programmes with any criticism against Lukashenka are blocked in Belarus.

- All that simply confirms our attitude to Lukashenka and increases our assuredness in this attitude. It would be strange for him not to block TV channels. Then he would be not Lukashenka and would not have a reputation of the last dictator of Europe.

- After the meeting with Saakashvili and an interview of the Georgian president to the Belarusian TV Channel BT you called Lukashenka a traitor. But the Belarusian leader was “dumping” Russia for the entire period of 16 years, receiving cheap energy resources and loans in exchange for kisses and promises.

- I have always considered him a traitor and a false ally. I have never believes sincerity of his desire to be united with Russia.

And not the interview with Saakashvili itself, and even not his receiving Bakiyev and flirting with Berezovsky are important here. The problem is his entire system of behavior in his relations with Russia for many years.

I mean his endless blackmailing, endless clownishness, endless bargaining and endless desire to come off like a big shot.

Like a coquettish girl, Lukashenka says that he would leave to another guy, though she cannot go to another guy. It is certainly pleasant for Western Europe to flirt with him a little in order to tease Russia. But he won’t become an insider there ever. It is the same as to embrace Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong-il. It is impossible and that won’t happen

Why Lukashenka has turned into a completely different direction now? I am absolutely sure that as a very ambitious and domineering man he wanted to become a leader of the united Russian-Belarusian state. But when Putin, a rather young, strong and no-nonsense man, came to power, their relations got off on the wrong foot, and their personal relations as well. Lukashenka understood that his game won’t be successful and lost interest to the topic of the union.

- To your mind, why Lukashenka met with Saakashvili, has given an asylum to Bakiyev?

- He demonstrates friendship with Saakashvili to snub us and to show the West that he cocks a snook at Russia, as if he were independent. But no one would believe him, as actions of such people as Lukashenka long ago are judged by what they are doing inside their country. And as we understand, inside his country Lukashenka won’t accept any concession. He won’t change himself.

I think Bakiyev belongs to the same category. Lukashenka knows that Russia has bad relations with Bakiyev and Russia has supported the new regime in Kyrgyzstan, and by taking care of Bakiyev he expresses his position.

- A year ago I asked a question to Prime Minister Putin: for how long Russia plans to support the dictatorial regime of Lukashenka, and why Russia does not support the democratic opposition? Putin said then: “Democracies in the post-Soviet space are weak; their legal status is not defined, so stability is the most important thing for us at this stage”. But it is obvious (which is confirmed by today’s events) that there could be no stability in our relations under Lukashenka.

- Maybe Putin was not ready to say then: we do not like Lukashenka, we would be against him. I think that he said what he thought, but he had remained of the same mind about the personality of the Belarusian leader. But he was not ready to change the Russian foreign policy then. Judging by some things screened at central Russian TV channels, now he is ready for that. It seems to me that he realizes this is the end; no more dealings with Lukashenka are possible.

- Even nationalists in Belarus connect changes in the country with today’s policy of Russia against Lukashenka’s regime. Are their expectations realistic? Will the Kremlin stop financing the dictatorship?

- I think it won’t be subsidized any more. I believe that if the leadership of the Russian Federation takes the problem of Lukashenka seriously, is really insulted by his actions and does not want to extend the conflict with him to entire Belarus, then they should go further and using its propaganda capacities, explain the Belarusian people that this money are not from Lukashenka’s pocket. Lukashenka was simply sucking out Russian resources and only a part of that gave to Belarusian workers. And what he was doing with the other part is a question which is still to be asked.

- All the election campaigns held in Belarus under Lukashenka were recognized as not free and not democratic by the West. What would be the position of Russia when the results of the imminent presidential elections would be rigged?

- If the election was today, rigging election results would be uncovered for sure. But I do not know what will happen in a few months. I hope that the current anti-Lukashenka trend in the Russian politics is a long-term and stable trend, as it is absolutely justified.

An interview by Natalya Radzina