Lieutenant Colonel Lupanosau Spoke about What Demoralizes the Security Forces

Sensational revelations of the GUBOPiK officer.

For almost 20 years Stanislau Lupanosau served in the police. In recent months - at the Main Directorate for Combating Organized Crime and Corruption.

Tut.by journalists talked with Stanislau about the specifics of work in the GUBOPiK and the mood among the security forces

"The siloviki missed the potential of the Internet"

- Tell us, when did you come to the GUBOP?

- I worked at the GUBOP from July to November 2020. Before that, for four years I was in the "K" department (for solving cybercrimes), previously worked in the criminal investigation department (he was mainly engaged in solving crimes of car theft). For a long time, I was called to the GUBOP, to the 3rd department, which is engaged in countering extremism, but I always refused. When I was offered to transfer to the 1st department, I agreed immediately, this department is engaged in the suppression of corruption crimes among senior officials.

It was supposed to be interesting work. Our corrupt officials are usually focused not on direct bribes, but kickbacks, a particularly widespread scheme - winning a tender for the right company. But during this time I almost failed to work closely on corruption cases. In the first month, I was sent to the 3rd department, and I was engaged in establishing connections with Siarhei Tsikhanouski. Well, I was not engaged but pretended to be, then I quit. If you remember, a diagram of who was in Tsikhanouski's team was published on the Internet.

Then I drew a similar plan, it was supervised by management, then they showed these diagrams to both Makei and the diplomats.

- How was this diagram drawn up? There, Tsikhanouski was credited with people who had never seen him in their lives, did not discuss anything with him.

- These were the speculations of the operative officers. There were people we worked on, it was necessary to somehow connect them. The plan does not correspond to reality. But practically all the people in this scheme were affected by the rink of repression. Those who are on the diagram are always arrested because the minister walks with this document and shows Lukashenka.

- Did the siloviki miss Tsikhanouski's potential?

- Of course. The siloviki generally missed the potential of the Internet. Our leaders are people of the old way of thinking. They do not read the information on the Internet, they do not understand how it works, so for a long time, they did not take Tsikhanouski and his activities seriously.

- An audio leaked to the Internet, where a man with a voice similar to Karaeu says that the security forces did not expect such a massive protest in 2020. What were you and your colleagues preparing for?

- Everyone thought that it would be like in 2010 - everything will end in one day. No one expected that the protest would be so long and massive, no one wrote a plan for such an event.

- Was there any fear within the system that Lukashenka might lose power?

- There was no fear, I would say that there was unaccounted hope in the eyes of the employees. Only those with compromising evidence were afraid, they really have something to lose. In general, about 400 employees of the central office of the Ministry of Internal Affairs alone put their signatures for Viktar Babaryka, and this is a serious figure. Their names were learned from the lists that were digitized by employees of his headquarters. Now with the employees who signed for Babaryka, contracts are not renewed. The same thing happens with those who fail the polygraph. After the elections, they began to ask the question of whether you voted for Lukashenka.

"Relatives ask:" Whom do you serve? "

- Karaeu in his last interview as the minister stated that the events after the elections rallied the personnel, and everyone stands for each other. Do you feel that it was so?

- Definitely not. This is just an ideological attitude that has no basis whatsoever. In fact, the employees walked around disappointed and frustrated with this system. Even those who broke the law during the suppression of the protests regretted having done so.

- How painful is the topic of de-anonymization of security officials?

- It is very painful because relatives, as a rule, are all civilians, constantly call and ask: “What, are you messing with this system? Do you serve the people or whom?" Many were even pecked by their wives. They all live in society, work in a team, take children to kindergarten or school. Now you need to do everything with caution, and this is discomforting and knocks you out of the normal working rhythm. The phone constantly receives messages from all over the world, day and night. It is impossible to ignore, it is demoralizing for the employees.

- But now the departments of Internal Security and then the entire power block stood up to protect the employees - for messages and comments, criminal cases are initiated, the defendants are assigned punishments close to the maximum. Does this change the situation? Do employees feel more secure?

- Of course not. Single individuals are actually identified from the entire pool of commentators. And most often these are the most harmless people who do not really know what information security is, and many know and act more cunningly. Moreover, there are not many employees in the General Directorate of Internal Security to cope with the flow of information that comes to employees.

We almost immediately felt what a fall of the image of the police is. Operative officers go to a search, you need to find attesting witnesses, but people massively refuse, some even in a harsh negative form. It has never happened that you came to the address and did not find an attesting person! You show your ID, especially the GUBOP, and people show you “special hospitality.”

"The task was - to stop all work and engage in protests"

- There is a lot of evidence that the operative officers unreasonably use physical force during the arrest. What are they guided by?

- An instruction to intimidate people. On August 10, I heard that there was an instruction: to beat everyone, to cripple people as much as possible, so that tomorrow these people could not come out to protest. No one got up and said nothing, but many looked at each other. Previously, physical force was practically not used. It started en masse in August 2020. And before that, the employees of the criminal investigation department, I know, were imprisoned for long terms for beating even a bandit, for example, or a tough drug addict. Therefore, almost no one used physical force. What for? To be in jail for 5-10 years after that? Who needs it? If this practice is not stopped, not only the opposition will be beaten. And then the authorities themselves would be horrified where this lead. But I think it won't come to that. Victory will come faster.

- Why do you think so? There are no prerequisites now: the power bloc looks like a monolith, hundreds of people are in jail, and law enforcement officers do not intend to stop, people receive sentences close to the maximum, the legislation continues to tighten, more and more Belarusians are leaving the country.

- The economic situation will play a role. In August, wealthy people came out to protest, not the working class. Among the detained were many IT specialists, entrepreneurs, directors of firms, there were even heads of bank branches. When you look at these lists, of course... And on TV they talk about drug addicts. I looked once: out of a thousand people, 30 were previously convicted for crimes that were committed at a young age or crimes of the level of non-payment of alimony, that is, minor ones. I walked among the protesters, looked at them - they are normal, respectable people.

- What tasks were set for you after the elections?

- The task was - to stop all work and engage in protests. Even the K department was busy identifying the protesters, looking at profiles on social networks, identifying people with the help of Kipod, and writing reports on the commission of an offense. But I know how some employees did this job. They look at the photo: a doctor, a normal person - they do not write a report as a person is not identified - and that was the case.

- Synesis company claims that their Kipod program was not used to identify protesters in Belarus. They went to court on this matter, as they were included in the sanctions list.

- I myself have worked with this program. Its algorithms are used to identify people.

- Do the employees believe in propaganda that the protests are run by foreign puppeteers, that paid alcoholics and prostitutes go out on marches, who want to take cruel revenge on the security forces?

- It’s convenient for them to believe that. Many people simply agree with these rules of the game - just don't touch me. People are living on loans, in apartments. Their thoughts are in this direction.

- Do you have any thoughts that you can be held accountable for breaking the law?

- Well, they think that it will never be revealed, that if people survived 2010, they will survive 2020, that Lukashenka guaranteed them immunity. And if he leaves, Russia will be here, which will cover them in the same way. And no one thinks that Russia can replace them with its own people.

"If we don't do the job, we will be disbanded"

- From time to time there was talk that the GUBOP should be disbanded, since the problems with organized crime, as it was in the 90s, have long disappeared.

- For ten years they have been talking about this, but recently this issue has not been raised anymore because the GUBOP has turned into a body of political investigation to survive. This is how the leadership informed us: if we do not do the work, we will be disbanded. Political affairs are mainly dealt with by the 3rd department in the central office, the 3rd department in Minsk, and regional cities. Now they are actively working on chats, go undercover, and find the most active participants who are then detained.

- It was strange to see GUBOP operative officers running around the streets with sticks and detaining march participants. Was there really such a shortage of employees of the special forces that the GUBOP had to be involved as well?

- Many volunteered themselves. People were promised bonuses, apartments, and other preferences. It was not even ordinary officers who ran then, but colonels and lieutenant colonels, together with soldiers of the special operations forces. When we were standing at the GUBOP building on Revolutionary Street, the idea was expressed to take light bulbs, fill them with paint and throw them into cars that honk - it was so annoying. Not only ordinary people reacted negatively to the actions of the GUBOP employees Not people, but also colleagues from other departments, looked at this with disapproval and condemnation.

- Tell us about salaries. The first days after the harsh crackdown, there were rumors that AMAP officers were given almost 5 thousand rubles of bonuses each.

- That was not the case. I don’t know who came up with such figures, the AMAP received the usual bonuses - about 1000-1200 rubles, plus a salary of under 2 thousand. I had a salary of 1,500 rubles at the GUBOP, and department heads had 1,800 rubles each. The money is not so big, but do not forget about the apartments - for those who need to improve their living conditions, many have come to Minsk from the regions.

- The Ministry of Internal Affairs says that an insignificant number of employees left the service. Do you trust this information?

- There is no exact data, but in recent years it was the most massive exodus, and it does not stop. Many, I know, sit until the end of the contract, especially if there is a little left until the length of service (gives the right to an increased pension). Incidentally, I had eight months left before the "twenty," and this is a serious argument; I gave this system a lot of effort and years, it was a shame that everything ends like that. But I just think for the future and do not want to be used against my own people. The last straw was the death of Raman Bandarenka. It was a blow for everyone, the employees condemned it in conversations, everyone understood that this was messed up, this should not happen. And through their channels, everyone knew that he was sober.

I was the first to leave the GUBOP. Many people say: “Where should we go? We don't know how to do anything else." Sitting as a security guard in a bank is not a good prospect. In fact, the most intelligent employees have left the system, I communicate with many, they are all satisfied and did not regret their decision, many have taken courses and found decent jobs. But for society, of course, this is a problem - there are fewer and fewer principled people in the system, loyalty to the authorities is higher than professionalism. Who will replace them, I have no idea.

- If there is no money, the security forces are ready to suffer somewhere to their detriment, but remain loyal to the system?

- I think, no one will serve to lose money. Everyone has children, loans. There is a limit to patience, and if not getting paid, they will leave the system.

- The GUBOP leadership declares that, in many respects, the information published by BYPOL was transmitted by you. This is true?

- That's not true, but GUBOP can calm themselves down thinking that. The information has been received, and it will continue to be received. The motivation of former and current law enforcement officers is to show the lawlessness that is currently being created, to call on employees to act in the interests of the people, and to serve according to the law and not according to criminal orders.