Shushkevich's Granddaughter: We Must Cut off Financing of Lukashenka So That He Leaves

3.06.2021, 12:17
16,816

Belarusians demand the introduction of economic sanctions against the regime.

Since May 26, a hunger strike has been taking place outside the European Commission's office in Warsaw, demanding the introduction of economic sanctions against the Belarusian authorities. The granddaughter of the first head of independent Belarus Stanislau Shushkevich, the leader of the Belarusian Youth Hub Stanislava Hlinnik, activists Bazhena Shamovich, Karalina Sauka, Dzmitry Kudzelevich, and Darja Tsitova are taking part in the protest campaign. Thousands of signatures have already been collected in support of the hunger strike participants' demands.

Stanislava Hlinnik became the hero of the new program of the Charter97.org Studio X97 website. Host is Yauhen Klimakin.

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Yauhen Klimakin: Stasia, first of all, please tell us about yourself. How did you get to Poland? What brought you here, under the office of the European Parliament and the European Commission?

Stanislava Glinnik: I came to Poland in 2013 under the Kalinouski program.

Yauhen Klimakin: Is this a program of assistance?

Stanislava Glinnik: Yes, a program to help students who cannot study in Belarus due to political reasons. I was detained after the 2012 “parliamentary elections” while working in a hostel. The whole hostel was detained when we rented out premises to independent election observers. Foreign guests were also detained. The whole house. But in general, my protest movement began from childhood. When I was five, I saw the first paddy wagons, the first actions, the first arrests. And my friends were all from the opposition. And, from the age of 11, we listened to Belarusian music, collected stickers, badges.

Yauhen Klimakin: White-red-white flag. Yes?

Stanislava Glinnik: The white-red-white flag was the only flag that I perceived. I have had a rejection for red-green since childhood.

I grew up in such Belarusian traditions that our flag is white-red-white. I do not feel any serious separation from the other part of society on this issue, but I just realized that this is my flag, and they have a different one.

Yauhen Klimakin: Now you and your friends are on a hunger strike. What day is today?

Stanislava Glinnik: Sixth. (At the time of the release of the program - already the ninth - ed. Charter97.org)

Yauhen Klimakin: How do you feel?

Stanislava Glinnik: Fine. We already had this turning point, when we felt bad. Now we have such a rush of euphoria, a feeling of unreality of what is happening, but we do not lose the thread, we remember our goal. And we don't eat.

Yauhen Klimakin: Well, in fact, what are the goals? What do you demand from the European Parliament, the European Commission?

Stanislava Glinnik: We demand from the European Commission the introduction of economic sanctions, the recognition of Lukashenka’s regime as terrorist. Not any sanctions, but normal, effective, specific economic sanctions against state-owned enterprises from three main sectors - the oil refining industry, the production of potash and nitrogen fertilizers, and woodworking. We need sanctions against Belaruskali, Grodnoazot, Belneftekhim, Naftan, Pinskdrev, and the Belarusian Metallurgical Plant.

Yauhen Klimakin: Specific requirements and the name of the enterprises are indicated, right?

Stanislava Glinnik: Yes, these are Belaruskali, Grodno Azot, Belneftekhim, Naftan, Pinskdrev, and Belarusian Metallurgical Plant.

Yauhen Klimakin: Are there any other requirements concerning, if I am not mistaken, recognizing Lukashenka as a terrorist?

Stanislava Glinnik: Yes, these are two basic requirements. In fact, the requirements in our petition are extended. There is a theoretical part where Europe could even simply express support. These are such items as, for example, the exclusion of Belarus from Interpol, the initiation of criminal cases against criminals from Belarus.

The practical part that the European Commission itself could introduce into life is the imposition of sanctions and the recognition of Lukashenka as a terrorist. Why do you need to do this? Because all people cooperating with the terrorist, all firms, countries automatically become accomplices of terrorists, including Russia.

Yauhen Klimakin: How do Poles react?

Stanislava Glinnik: They are very supportive, very supportive. We did not even expect that they would support us so much. We were shown on all Polish TV channels, we were printed by almost all Polish media, there is a constant flow of people who come specially to us to sign a petition, to find out how they can help us.

Polish volunteer initiatives are of great help to us. They assigned us a physician, a volunteer doctor who comes to us every day to check our health. We are constantly in contact, they come every day, check how we are here, whether we need something.

We spied some new protest technologies from them, they brought such bags that if leave in the air for ten minutes, then they heat up, and you can carry them in your pocket; it will keep you warm for six hours. Also, thermal blankets that look like a piece of foil are so small. It is very interesting to just see how they are preparing for the protests in Poland, what technologies they have.

Yauhen Klimakin: Five people are now on hunger strike. Please tell me, Bazhena, it all started with you and Stasia, you started it. How it was?

Bazhena Shamovich: Yes, we are really the culprits of this protest. Our decision was made on Sunday when we learned the news about the abduction of Raman Pratasevich. Then Stasia had the idea that it was necessary to act somehow. She intuitively understood that there should be a hunger strike. It is time to demand from Europe and Poland tougher sanctions against the regime because it is already impossible to tolerate. I just returned from Belarus, I understood and felt in what fear people live there. We can't be silent anymore, we need to act!

Yauhen Klimakin: Diana, you are collecting signatures. What is the purpose?

Diana: We want to collect at least three thousand signatures. When we collect them, the European Commission will have to give a public and official answer.

Yauhen Klimakin: Dzima, I heard that you have some incredible story of escape from the KGB through a window. Is this true or is it some kind of rumor?

Dzmitry Kudzialevich: No, it really was like that, but it was a relatively long time ago. On August 17, I joined the strike committee at Belaruskali. I was there for a relatively short time because, on the 20th, I was seized in a bandit manner and brought to the district department of the KGB, where I managed, indeed, physically, in the literal sense of the word, to escape.

Yauhen Klimakin: Why do you believe so much in economic sanctions, in their effectiveness?

Stanislava Glinnik: Because we have to cut off the financing of Lukashenka so that he leaves. As soon as he runs out of money, he will no longer be able to support his army of freaks. We understand that economic sanctions will lead to economic decline. Everyone understands this.

Yauhen Klimakin: And, on this occasion, we hear moans, screams that it is not necessary. Even the opposition is divided.

Stanislava Glinnik: Yes, but Lukashenka will lead to the same. Unfortunately, we are at a stage when an economic crisis cannot be avoided. The question is how long it will last.

It will last exactly until Lukashenka leaves. We already know about Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya's agreement with Europe on financial support for Belarus after Lukashenka's departure. The tougher and sharper the sanctions are now, the sooner he will leave. The sooner he leaves, the faster we can build a normal country. Yes, there will be a crisis, only while he (Lukashenka - ed.) is here.

Yauhen Klimakin: I heard that you even compile a list of Polish enterprises that cooperate with state-owned enterprises of Belarus, somehow exerting pressure on them.

Stanislava Glinnik: Yes, other volunteers of the Youth Hub and our main Belarusian activist in Warsaw, Yana Shostak, are engaged in this. They educate the Polish population about which firms are subsidiaries of Belarusian companies that sponsor Lukashenka.

In general, this is a big problem because, in 2020, the trade between Europe and Belarus amounted to 12 billion euros. Poland alone - 3 billion.

56% of the wood produced in Belarus is purchased by Poland. From this, IKEA furniture is made both at a factory in Belarus and a factory in Bialystok. Beloil is a Polish company, which is actually a subsidiary of Belneftekhim. Now, it is almost ready to sign a contract with Orlen. There is something to work on, people do not know about it, people do not associate the prefix "bel" with Belarus. We need to talk about this. Even if we do not achieve something at the political level, the Poles support us so much that they will stop buying products made in Belarus.

Yauhen Klimakin: How much did the story of the hijacking of the plane change the attitude of European politicians and the public towards the Lukashenka regime?

Stanislava Glinnik: As much as possible. Europe thought that this was some kind of hermetic problem that could be left for a while until there were bright and noticeable protests. It thought to conserve this problem, and then, suddenly, an act of international terrorism, "our people were captured." They were able to stop this earlier. Therefore, we are trying to ensure that sanctions are introduced at least now. They actually had to be introduced in August. If they were introduced in August, we would avoid unnecessary casualties, we would avoid acts of terrorism, and so on.

Yauhen Klimakin: It is important to understand that these are not just economic things, but that the lives of people are behind them. Failure to impose sanctions means more and more sacrifices, not just lower earnings.

Stanislava Glinnik: Our most popular poster is “Just business.” It's time, perhaps, to stop trading with bloody dictators, to think about people. We will then be able to restore the economy and build normal economic relations. Help us to swat this "cockroach" as quickly as possible.

Yauhen Klimakin: In your opinion, political refugees, the diaspora, what can they do now, how can they help the common cause?

Stanislava Glinnik: In fact, a lot. We understand that, in Belarus, now there is no opportunity to address someone, to talk about something because it is extremely unsafe. What the Belarusians began to say there - we can continue these phrases here. We hear, we know what's going on there. We can draw the attention of the European media. It's one thing when something happens in Belarus, somewhere very far away. It's another thing when we remind you, standing in front of you, about what is happening there and demand attention to it. We can do a lot.

I know that the diaspora is actively involved in this: it draws up petitions, sends letters. The "people's embassies" are trying to work at a more or less diplomatic level, the rally groups work too.

Everyone understands that the peaceful actions we are doing are needed in order to meet the Belarusians, where we speak only our language, where passers-by do not understand us. It is pleasant for us because we are all together; the people who have arrived do not feel lonely. Yes, this is good for those who left, but it does not help those who stayed in Belarus at all.

If we really want to go home and help them, we need to work more precisely and more rigidly. Moreover, this must be approached competently. You can't just come and demand something from someone. You need to study the issue, you need to understand whether those you are contacting are really responsible for resolving your issue. And, if you are ready to make an action, but you are not sure that you have enough theoretical basis - contact, ask.

Yauhen Klimakin: Well, using your hunger strike case as an example, how effective was it? This is pressure on the specific establishment of the office of the European Parliament, the European Commission.

Stanislava Glinnik: We did not expect how effective it would be. Politicians began to meet with us, we have already met with 15 deputies of the Polish Seim. We met with a Senate representative, including the vice-marshal and the marshal.

Yauhen Klimakin: Vice-speakers?

Stanislava Glinnik: Yes. They handed over a document signed by the Polish Senate on the eve of this meeting, which says that Poland recognizes Lukashenka's actions as an act that violates international law and also launches a European dialogue on the release of political prisoners.

So far, we have received such a global reaction only from Poland. We covered the problem, in my opinion, in the majority of the world media, in Europe so precisely.

We were visited by journalists from Finland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Canada, perhaps, I even forgot someone.

At the very least, we were able to raise the issue of Belarus to the international level again. More precisely, the situation with the plane raised the issue of Belarus. We were able to keep this degree a little with our campaign, in general, this also had such an additional goal.

The representatives of Poland are making contact. This week we will be meeting with Polish politicians, partly leaving our place of hunger strike. We will meet already in private conversations.

As for the representatives of the European Commission, we will contact them ourselves as soon as we collect the required number of signatures. They have pretty formal approaches. Until we can confirm our demands with these three thousand signatures, we will not contact them. We have already collected more than two thousand. There are still about a thousand left. Hope to collect it soon. I think that, by the end of the working week, we will be ready for this meeting.

Yauhen Klimakin: Did you go to the Square last year?

Stanislava Glinnik: I was in Minsk from the first half of September to the end of October.

Yauhen Klimakin: How did you go through all this?

Stanislava Glinnik: Of course, I took part in all this. Honestly, it seems to me that I arrived at such a milder period when people were already being let out, and there was a kind of revolution atmosphere in Minsk.

It was very cool, it was very cool. Of course, we ran away from the AMAP and all that. I hurt my leg in Minsk. I felt everything because a friend sewed me up at home. So, unfortunately, I didn't go to the marches for the last part of my stay, simply because I would not have been able to escape.

As the tightening began to take place, I remember how already acquaintances returned in a more depressive state from those marches. When I first arrived, everyone was on the rise.

My friends got to Akrestsina Street from the very beginning. We were terribly worried about them; in Warsaw, I was the organizer of summer rallies. Actually, on the nights from August 9 to August 11, the guys and I were together, watching all the broadcasts, tracking Telegram, sending SMS to relatives because the Internet did not work in Belarus, it was only possible to send information via SMS.

However, there was such a system that we received information via SMS. Relatives and friends told us what was happening there. We threw it into Telegram and back.

Yauhen Klimakin: Naturally, I cannot ignore the story of your famous grandfather, thanks to whom journalists are also lining up here, to be honest. Does he support your hunger strike?

Stanislava Glinnik: I think so. He gave an interview in which he said that he was proud of me. We are not in contact now, while I am here.

Yauhen Klimakin: Why?

Stanislava Glinnik: My whole family is in Belarus. I try not to let them know what's going on here. I didn’t warn them about the hunger strike, I don’t talk just so as not to endanger them.

Yauhen Klimakin: What are your parents doing?

Stanislava Glinnik: Father is an architect-restorer. Mom is a composer, but she hasn't worked for quite some time. She is now a housewife.

Yauhen Klimakin: Do they support you?

Stanislava Glinnik: Of course. They are not actively involved in the movement. The father already has a different family, he has a small child; for safety, they do not participate but morally support.

Yauhen Klimakin: This is not even a stereotype, but the way it develops in life is that most often people, who were in such high positions as your grandfather, their families, live in luxury. These are some kind of houses, expensive cars. Is your family rich or do you live modestly?

Stanislava Glinnik: This rather refers to the families of officials of corrupt regimes. After all, my grandfather, when he was in power, was not a corrupt official. We used to live modestly - we live modestly now. Even then, my grandfather refused to live in the residence in Drazdy. He lived in his own apartment and had one security guard who sat on a stool next to him. He was also invited home, to the table.

Our family has never been distinguished by a craving for a luxurious life, gold. Nobody needs it, there are other values, it seems to me. If we can earn by honest labor, then, of course, it's great to live well, but if all this should be tied to corruption, nepotism, and so on, then why?

Yauhen Klimakin: What did the revolution give you?

Bazhena Shamovich: It made me see that Belarus really wants changes. Because it seemed that it was easier to leave, to build another life, they would accept you there. It turned out that the majority wants to live in their own country. And why should we leave if we love our country?

When there were these huge mass protests, women's marches, and also demonstrations - I saw how many beautiful Belarusians want to live here and change their country. Then I realized that this is how Belarus can be, not aggressive, because our protests were peaceful with flowers, with posters, with smiles, and help. This is something incredible.

When I was in Minsk, I saw that a bag of garbage was tied to each tree so that everything was neat, there was help with water and food. I saw that this is what Belarus can be like.

Yauhen Klimakin: I talk to different people. There are different points of view. Some, I often hear, whine that everything is gone, last year, they failed to put the squeeze on the regime. There are people, there are a lot of them, who believe that victory is close, that the regime will collapse. I wonder what you think about this?

Bozena Shamovic: I belong to a different group. Because even the situation with Raman Pratasevich, for me it was the death cry of the regime. When you no longer know what to do, you cross new boundaries, such as the hijacking of a European plane.

Yes, indeed, many of the people who come to us here say that we are great, that we have returned hope to them, that they know that, a little bit more, and we will be able to win. Therefore, faith returned and hope too. Perhaps this helps to restore the spirit of protest that was in the past year.

Yauhen Klimakin: Do you want to come back?

Diana: Yes, of course. This is probably my main dream and goal to return to the new Belarus because some of my relatives now live there. There are my friends, there are my colleagues and my comrades in the university strike. I really want to see them, I want to live in my own country.

Dzmitry Kudzialevich: We want to return to Belarus but make it completely new. A pro-European modern state.

Yauhen Klimakin: Here, already in Poland, together with your friends, you founded the Belarusian Youth Hub. What does it do?

Stanislava Glinnik: We help people who are forced to leave Belarus, who are already in Poland. First of all - young people. We help to enter universities in Poland, we also help families with children who need to send their child to school or kindergarten. We help people find work, help them find housing. We hold events.

These are not only rallies, not only some educational events like our webinars, but also we do such integration, entertaining things. We have a club “What? Where? When?”, we do PubQuiz's, city quests, excursions.

Yauhen Klimakin: How many people have you already helped?

Stanislava Glinnik: It's hard to count, but it's about a thousand people.

Yauhen Klimakin: For what period?

Stanislava Glinnik: We started to work at full in November last year.

Yauhen Klimakin: Are you a student now?

Stanislava Glinnik: I am a student now, I have one year of study left, but now I have taken a study break to help Belarusians.

Yauhen Klimakin: Which faculty?

Stanislava Glinnik: Gastronomy and hotel business. I love it very much. This is my third university, but, this time, I finally got to where my heart lies.

Yauhen Klimakin: Stasia, I noticed that the police are here. Are they guarding you?

Stanislava Glinnik: Yes, they are here to protect us, not beat us.

Yauhen Klimakin: What do you like, and what do you dislike in Belarus.

Stanislava Glinnik: I like our people. As the group Lumen sang: "I love my country, but I hate the state."

I love our people, I love that, despite how much they mocked our people, our culture is still preserved.

All these examples of how we take off our shoes in order to climb onto the bench, how clean it is in Belarusian houses, it is especially felt in emigration. How we behave and how we always think about the people around us is a real Belarusian cultural trait.

What I don't like is the Soviet past, fear, dullness. I think we will get rid of it. Because it is not ours, it is acquired.

Yauhen Klimakin: I think this path of purification is going on now.

Stanislava Glinnik: Yes, it's 100% true. Like everything unnatural, it must disappear by itself. We'll spit it out.

Yauhen Klimakin: For you personally. Freedom is ...?

Stanislava Glinnik: It is an opportunity to make a choice, first of all, when you are responsible for this choice. A difficult concept of freedom, because my freedom ends where the freedom of another person begins. Freedom is the ability to choose your own responsibility for some actions. Live so that you are not ashamed of it and, at the same time, feel that you can change your decision, do as you want at any moment.

Yauhen Klimakin: Lukashenka is...?

Stanislava Glinnik: Murderer. This is an uneducated person, a boor, a person with mental disorders.

Yauhen Klimakin: Belarusians are ...?

Stanislava Glinnik: People. Clean, modern, and European.

Yauhen Klimakin: Stanislau Shushkevich is...?

Stanislava Glinnik: My grandfather. Democrat. Fair man.

Yauhen Klimakin: Hero of Belarus is...?

Stanislava Glinnik: Every person who protested.

Yauhen Klimakin: The people are a hero.

Stanislava Glinnik: The people are a hero.

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