Andrei Sannikov: It's Over For Lukashenka

Belarusians will see new "windows of opportunities".

The leader of the European Belarus Civil Campaign Andrei Sannikov became a guest of Radio Racyja.

The opposition politician told why Belarusians do not need to constantly look back at Russia, what events can open the next "window of opportunity" for the liberation of the country and why Belarus is waiting for a European future.

— In 1994, the first presidential elections were held in Belarus. On July 10, it became known that Aliaksandr Lukashenka won the elections. At that time, you worked as an adviser to the Belarusian mission to Switzerland, if I am not mistaken. What did you think of this choice of Belarusians?

— Not only did I think, I knew it would be a disaster. When I was working in Switzerland, I met with some people who were part of Lukashenka's team. Here you can recall Anatol Maisenia. I argued with them, and he tried to convince me that if they did not govern, they would determine the course of Belarus but not Lukashenka. I knew it wouldn't happen. Therefore, I did not "think", but knew.

— The then Belarusian elites, not only political but also cultural, the intellectuals in general, had a common opinion — they chose, but he was an inexperienced countryman, the chairman at the collective farm — a year or two, but he won't last any longer. That was the opinion, wasn't it?

— It was, because the first elections were held. There were still semi-free elections to the Supreme Council in 1991. I believe that these were truly the first elections, we were faced with this institution, we were delighted — we can choose our leadership. And so everyone said that "Sasha will not last long." And even his wife said: “He never stayed in any place for more than two years ”.

— It turned out quite differently. 30 years of Lukashenka is 30 years down the drain for Belarus. Is it possible to find something positive?

— I do not like this question very much and always answer that let's try to look for something positive when it is finished. I believe that this is a solid streak of bad luck, which set us back not even 30 years, but more.

If we look at what is happening around us, first of all — in Europe, in the Baltic States, in Poland, how people live, how they made such a breakthrough, if we compare it with Belarus. It is obvious that if it were not for this shameful war of Russia against Ukraine, then in general Europe would be a powerful union of rich nations. It is still such an association, that's a success story, but this association has now been attacked by Russia.

— Lukashenka has definitely decided on his enemies and friends in this war. And what is the most important, the most significant, lost under Lukashenka's rule? What do you think it is? After all, there can be different beliefs.

— Our place in the world — we have lost what is rightfully ours, we have lost our European nature, which should have been strengthened. We lost all our opportunities that we had together with the Baltic nations for example, together with Poland.

Perhaps we had even more opportunities than the actual EUmember states. We have lost the future that we must return to become again the Belarus that should be in Europe and the civilized world, and not with feudal Russia.

— But Belarus is very young as a state, I mean modern history, without considering the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (GDL). 30 years of Belarusian history is almost the entire history of the Belarusian independent state, if you do not return to the GDL. It's lost under Lukashenka's rule and because of Lukashenka. Is it possible to return it, to catch up with the neighbors?

— I believe that we can very quickly make our country, our state, truly worthy after Lukashenka. The 2020 events showed this because no matter how Lukashenka oppresses Belarus and Belarusians, we showed that we have very talented and prominent people. These people were forced to leave the country. But I am sure that most of them will return, if not for permanent residence in Belarus after Lukashenka, then they still will keep helping the country, because there will be opportunities that will be attractive, first of all — for Belarusians. Both in the country and for those who have left.

— Since you touched on the topic of the future, let's talk about the elections to be held in Belarus in 2025. Will they happen? Is there a brave counter-candidate? This, as the recent elections showed, is very risky — a direct path either to emigration or to prison. Earlier, in 2010, you were also a candidate, Lukashenka's rival in the elections. It ended with your imprisonment. Will there be a brave man in a year?

— No, the elections ended in 2020, that's all, there will be no more elections in Belarus under Lukashenka, even local ones. And therefore, we cannot connect any hopes now with the farce that Lukashenka will arrange, for which he is now assembling a team, this is obvious. But he will not be able to deceive either Belarusians or people outside the borders of Belarus, everything is over for Lukashenka. There will be other processes.

— Then what can we hope for?

— For the victory of Ukraine in the war. The fact that it is necessary not only to help Belarus, but also to fight with Russia, to defend Belarus. That's worth the hopes. That's the fact – there will be opportunities and "windows of opportunity" will be created and opened, I am sure of this.

— If not much changes in Russia as a result of this war, it will end with a truce, this war will end in a draw, what will happen? If not this Lukashenka, then another "Lukashenka", if the "hand of Moscow" will be over Belarus.

— No, it shouldn't scare us. It always bothers me a lot when they tell us that "you can try it, but Russia is there". What about Russia? Russia exists, and it will be, and will be a negative factor, it will be a threat to our independence. Do not pay attention to this, because those who did not pay attention are the Baltic nations for example, they are now independent and full NATO member states.

And those who thought of Russia as a certain time of power in Moldova are now somewhere in a swamp. Do not think about it, you need to think about how to get real independence and move on. Russia will have no power to support this regime, which demands money and violence.

— Is it possible to move on, as you said, with those who were previously in Lukashenka's team, but left it, switched to the light side of the barricades? Natallia Radzina, the Editor-in-Chief of Charter97.org, said about Pavel Latushka that he should repent and not get involved in politics, something like that. I mean not only Pavel Latushka, but just people who...

— I will answer you. We think election fraud is a crime, right? Yes. Latushka, who held the positions of both minister and ambassador, he not only participated, he was responsible for these falsifications. Still, that's a crime. Through the courts, they will be able to join the democratic movement, the opposition. And not so that some GUPOPiK [the Main Directorate for Combating Organized Crime and Corruption - a punitive Lukashenka's body - Ed.] enforcers and a people who had been working for this regime for more than 20 years and created it, and says that they are the leaders of the opposition... That should never happen. We will not get rid of this regime if we take deceivers and criminals for some leaders.

— But you were also Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs for two years. We can say that you were in Lukashenka's team for two years. I understand, it's a little different here, you left very quickly.

— I've never been in Lukashenka's team.

– All right.

— Lukashenka adopted my achievements. He was the one who took advantage of the results that the Foreign Ministry has achieved for Belarus. Firstly, he took advantage of the contracts signed due to our work. The agreements with the European Union for example. Please, do not spread lies, I have never been in Lukashenka's team.

— We don't spread it...

— That's for Liabedzka, for Tsepkala, but not for me.

— We do not spread it, let's say, Belarusians sometimes discuss it on all sorts of forums, in social media and so on. "If Latushka worked, then why didn’t Sannikov?" I see the difference, Sannikov paid a big personal price for his decisions and his life, that's true.

— It's not even about the price. You know, when I could work for the state, I worked. Then I realized that everything was over, this period when I could still negotiate.

Lukashenka came when I headed the delegations of Belarus, that is, he interfered with my work, but I had the opportunity to work. When it all ended in 1996, I resigned on the eve of the referendum, I emphasize it again.

— We are waiting for what will happen in 2025. My guest Andrei Sannikov says that there will be no elections, time will tell. Thank you for the talk! Take care and have a good day!

— All the very best.

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