Dzmitry Bandarenka: Only Sanctions Can Stop This Chaos

The authorities must be held accountable for the loss of life.

Coordinator of the civil campaign European Belarus Dzmitry Bandarenka stated this in an interview to the Belsat TV channel.

- Recently, sentences of up to 7 years in a maximum-security colony were announced, including for the activists of European Belarus. The coordinator of European Belarus Dzmitry Bandarenka is with us in the studio. Greetings.

- Good evening.

- 7 years in a maximum-security colony for some, as well as for Pavel Seviarynets. We just spoke to his mother. Everyone wants to believe that they will come out much earlier.

- Personally, I will do everything to make them come out this year.

- What can be done for this?

- You need to understand that we are Belarusians, and you need to understand that, today, real heroes, real leaders, who did not come to the Belarusian movement yesterday, have been convicted. And when we free them, we will liberate Belarus. Or it may happen that we will liberate Belarus and, at the same time, it will become a time of liberation for my friends, all political prisoners, and all those convicted of "protest" articles, as they say today.

- So far, we are observing a situation when the number of political prisoners officially recognized by human rights activists is increasing almost every day. This number is already reaching almost half a thousand. But we know that there are significantly more victims under political charges. Aliaksandr Lukashenka in no way shows that he is ready to give in.

- Lukashenka today acts in two guises: a moron and an aggressive moron. Sorry for the harshness. The whole world sees it. Today, they say on Polish television that Lukashenka is a psychiatrist's problem. They say what all Belarusians know.

It is not important what is in his head. The development of the situation will depend on our activity, on our solidarity. We see that the Belarusians were able to wake up the whole world. And today's statement by French President Macron that representatives of the Belarusian opposition should be invited to the meeting of the "Great Seven" is our common small victory. We must take these steps every day. Both within Belarus and abroad, at the international level and a very, very local level. We see what kind of people are behind bars today, what wonderful families they have. Everyone has the opportunity to help them: as neighbors, as businessmen, as a Belarusian to a Belarusian. From global to local, we can work together.

- Belarusian solidarity is very big. We have seen this very strongly over the past year. We also see the activity of the Belarusian opposition, which lives abroad; for a moment, let's move to the Belarusian Embassy in Warsaw, where a rally of solidarity and protest is also taking place. These are all very important steps. There are also top-level meetings, diplomatic work is underway. But Aliaksandr Lukashenka wants to listen to no one and nothing.

- There will be a big reaction to this scandal with the plane because the West is taking such strong steps for the first time. The regime always reacts to sanctions. Andrei Sannikau and I were released in 2012 only after the ambassadors of the Western countries left Minsk and there was a demand that the Belarusian ambassadors leave. This step has not been taken now. But every ambassador of Lukashenka is a trade broker, and simply the departure of this ambassador will hit the regime economically. But for some reason, it was done in 2011-2012, but now it is not.

And we remember the famous sanctions of one of the heads of the US State Department David Kramer in 2007-2008 when both Dashkevich and Finkevich were released, and a little later, presidential candidate Kazulin. Therefore, as soon as the West takes certain steps, the dictatorship will react. Lukashenka himself understands that he is clinging to power with blue fingers, and the access of blood to these fingers has long ended. So we are waiting for the denouement.

- You are talking about 2012, but you were thrown behind bars in 2010. Nevertheless, a certain time has passed behind bars, and some health has also been lost. Some are already being released during these protests, like tut.by journalist Katsiaryna Barysevich.

- I think it's an honor. The leaders of the Polish Solidarity said that if you were not in prison, you have no right to come to power. I agree that those who have not been in prison will have problems in order to work in the power structures of the new Belarus. It is a fact. And I am proud that I belong to the old opposition, and, today, it was representatives of the old opposition that were tried. Once, on Independence Square, Pavel Yukhnevich said: "I belong to the old opposition and went to protest rallies for the first time in 13 years. But I'm only 37 today."

- Dzmitry, but, unfortunately, not all representatives of the old opposition will come out from behind bars. Today, the relatives of political prisoner Vitold Ashurk received his body. In the death certificate, the reason says: to be specified. According to relatives, the body was bandaged, even the head. Only the mouth was visible. Then they told that the body fell in the morgue. And the so-called investigators had to react by posting a video of the death of a political prisoner. Attention: shocking facts. Video of the death of, presumably, Vitold Ashurk, which was distributed by the Investigative Committee of Belarus. But the editing was done on it, as well as the approximation of the second part so that the date and time were not visible. There is a doubt that this is this person at all. The video raises even more questions.

These are the shots. Presumably, this is Vitold Ashurok, but many have doubts. You, as a person who was behind bars and saw the conditions and circumstances with your own eyes, see this footage. Do you also have doubts?

- I can only say: Vitold was killed, and the authorities are responsible for this. I will express my version about this scandal with the plane. The authorities did not expect that there would be such a resonance, but it was just an attempt to divert attention from the death of a political prisoner whom they killed. We don't see on the footage, but maybe this activist was beaten for a certain time before, and the video was edited. But, in any case, he was not provided with timely assistance, and the man simply died in prison. And they will answer for this crime. And this video will be one of the pieces of evidence at the Hague Tribunal. This is unconditional. But we must all understand who we are dealing with and whether it is possible to solve the problem only by appeals and flowers.

- When we observe such shots, what happens? Does the KGB have videotapes of everything that happens there: both torture and possible murder?

- Cameras are not there everywhere. When Sannikau and I were released in 2012, we told reporters about our experiences. And Lukashenka later said on TV about me: “I saw a video with him, and he could hardly walk there in prison.”

But why am I talking about the seriousness of this video with Vitold Ashurok and the need for appropriate action in response? I saw how people die in prison, they were my acquaintances, they were not political, but each prisoner can tell that he saw people die or that it happened very close by.

Only sanctions can stop this chaos of the Belarusian authorities. But when I talked with one of the representatives of Tsikhanouskaya's headquarters in October 2020 that sanctions are needed, they answered me: "Sanctions are an ambiguous thing. Svetachka's rating may go down." And until now, Tsikhanouskaya has not raised the issue of tough sanctions. We prepared a document with Latushka's team, discussed it for several months, they talked with Tsikhanouskaya's headquarters so that all famous people would sign unequivocally for the sanctions. Tsikhanouskaya refused to sign this document. And, therefore, such deaths will occur if there is no reaction. And if there is such sniveling, "targeted sanctions, otherwise, the people will suffer" - excuse me, what's this? This must be understood by those who call themselves the leaders of Belarus. We, the old opposition, have gone through this, we know that mistakes have to be paid with people's lives.

- The opposition altogether, including Pavel Latushka and Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, are meeting today in Vilnius at an emergency meeting.

- At a scheduled meeting, not an emergency.

- They call it an emergency meeting. I think that here we need to be honest, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya met with the largest number of leaders.

- And the result? Why are the sanctions smaller than in 2010-2012, where you started? Where are the results of the meetings? Where are the sanctions?

- The fourth package of sanctions. Angela Merkel said today that the sanctions will be adopted in a more expanded format after a conversation between Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya and a representative of the White House. Joe Biden makes a statement that has never been made by Washington on Belarus. This is the result.

- Biden makes a statement because the plane was forcefully landed. And she meets with Tsikhanouskaya only because Seviarynets, Afnahel, and others are in prison, and millions of Belarusians came out to protest.

- Seviarynets, Afnahel, and other prisoners are in prison because they were imprisoned by the Lukashenka regime, and not because Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya is to blame for this.

- I’m not saying she’s to blame. I say that the West is reacting to what Lukashenka is doing.

- Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya's husband has also been behind bars for almost a year. And this must also be remembered.

- Honestly, I saw when my wife fought for my release. I don't really see it here. This is my point of view.

- It seems to me that now attacks on Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya are not very ethical, this is one point. And the second point is that the attacks are not entirely objective.

- This is my subjective point of view. My friends are sentenced to 7 years today. I talked about sanctions from the first days. When people think that they have a better experience than those who have gone through prisons, make mistakes, and do not want to hear anything, maybe they will hear me today?

- I think that everyone needs to be together in order to hear each other and stop blaming.

- We have a democracy. Normal conversation, normal criticism. But when we see that the regime is killing people, and we know which regime we are dealing with, then there should be appropriate actions. And if a person calls himself a leader, he must behave accordingly. And maybe there will be a reaction, including to my words. Because I was talking to Afnahel's wife, a 24-year-old girl. I asked her: “How are you, Katsiaryna? Are you ready? Your husband is facing 7 years..."

- Maybe Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya will face more. It's not about who gets a longer sentence.

- Do you think that Tsikhanouskaya always does everything right? Or do we have no right to criticism?

- Do you or I always do everything right all the time?

- And I admit the criticism. But I have not heard that Belsat criticized Tsikhanouskaya for anything. Maybe this is the problem?

- The fact that you are sitting here on the air and saying such things is also not censorship.

- I'm not talking about censorship. I am speaking in fact. I know that, in the underground Polish press, different streams of Solidarity had discussions among themselves. You say that an emergency meeting took place today. Was Sannikau invited there?

- Maybe Sannikau is not so important today?

- And was I invited? I'm not important at all.

- Are you here.

- I'm in Warsaw, yes. And where is Latushka?

- Today, he is in Vilnius.

- Why am I not in Vilnius?

- Latushka is probably deciding something.

- Today, the European Belarus is being tried. And these are not the very last people. And this is my team. But there is a division.

I would sum up: we will do our job, as we did before the new opposition, and we'll do after the new opposition. And we will do everything for people to come out this year.

- Everyone hopes for it. Including me, and you, and Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya. So let's speak with one voice. Thank you for this conversation. Dzmitry Bondarenka, coordinator of European Belarus was my guest.